At what point is one "ready" for a real race car?| Grassroots Motorsports forum |

BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/6/13 10:23 a.m.

't is the season where people offload their old race cars and I see so much temptation around...

Common wisdom seems to be that you'll have to basically "outgrow" a street car on the track before you're ready for a race car. I agree that it's probably easier to learn car control in a street car with its comparatively lower grip levels, but at what point should one consider oneself to be ready to jump into a "real" race car?

This is initially for HPDE and Club Trials/Time Trials, but at some point I'd like to do some historic racing. Spec Piñata and the like don't hold much interest to me, I'd rather race a history small bore car or maybe even an FF instead.

What does the peanut gallery say?

aussiesmg MegaDork
12/6/13 10:30 a.m.

The right time is when you have $100K of play money at the end of the financial year.

Otherwise, struggle along with the rest of us doing it at the wrong time.

93EXCivic MegaDork
12/6/13 10:33 a.m.

If you are jumping into a small bore historic race (I'm assuming you mean Midget or Spitfire or MGB, etc), why not just start there? They aren't exactly screaming fast cars.

wvumtnbkr GRM+ Memberand Dork
12/6/13 10:35 a.m.

I say get a cheap racecar LIKE a Spec Pinata or similar. Learn with this car.

If you put it in the wall, it will be WAY less to fix than a street car.

Take it to cheap car races (Lemons / Chump / Etc...).

Basically, I guess I am saying: We run a 2nd gen rx7 in Lemons and Chump. I also have a street RX7 that is track ready. I NEVER take the street car to the track. The car that is a race-car is easier on my wallet to maintain and it doesn't piss me off when something minor happens. Ohh, look, I got a scratch.

Just jump in.

N Sperlo MegaDork
12/6/13 10:36 a.m.

What IS a real race car?

aussiesmg MegaDork
12/6/13 10:38 a.m.

N Sperlo wrote: What IS a real race car?

A dedicated race car, is how I took it.

JoeyM Mod Squad
12/6/13 10:43 a.m.

you are ready when you can afford to crumple it up against a wall without stressing about the cost. Until then, find a car you can destroy without concern.

I'm too poor, by that logic, to track anything....probably why I don't, and have to make do with the occasional autocross. Honestly, I haven't done that in almost two years.....Instead, the play money goes towards the datsun replica.

Klayfish SuperDork
12/6/13 10:44 a.m.

Tell me about it. Winter is the time. I'm completely hooked on LeMons and plan to run that as long as I can. I'm part of an existing team, so I don't need my own car. But I've always wanted to try circle track. There's an asphault track about 45 minutes from me...and a NASCAR home dirt track that's just 5 minutes from me. I could get a 4 cylinder class car for well under $1000. Only reason I haven't yet is I need to have all these criteria in place....

The budget to buy one (could swing it now)
A place to keep it (I have that now)
The time to actually go race it (not really)
The budget to maintain it (not really)
The time to fix it (hell no)
The skill to fix it (questionable at best)

Until all of those things are in line for me, then as much as I want to do it, the odds are fairly slim. Getting the skills to fix it I can probably find ways around, as I can ask for help or pay people...which will require more budget.

If you've got all those things lined up, I'd say go for it.

N Sperlo MegaDork
12/6/13 10:48 a.m.

aussiesmg wrote:
N Sperlo wrote: What IS a real race car?
A dedicated race car, is how I took it.

I guess we need to know what Bohead wants to race, then. You can start as low as a couple hundred and work your way up very quickly.

ransom GRM+ Memberand UberDork
12/6/13 10:56 a.m.

I have no experience to back this up, but I went a different direction from the original question...

I kinda thought that a "real" race car was a car built to be a race car rather than a converted production car... And as long as you don't bite off too much in the power department, I get the impression that there's nothing really wrong with starting there, as long as you start with something like a Spec Racer Ford or a Formula Vee or something without too much tire or power.

I've also developed the impression that for a lot of stuff, a "real" race car can be easier to maintain due to being built for the job, at the downsides of higher buy-in, and certainly more expense for specialty parts if you do break them. It's certainly going to be cheaper to get a Miata fender than an SRF nose...

Again, those are only the rough impressions I've gathered from reading. And it's totally useless in the face of the desire to go historic racing, unless you mean historic formula or sports racers... I do have a tendency to be overly swayed by the musings of one Peter Egan.

jstein77 SuperDork
12/6/13 11:06 a.m.

N Sperlo wrote:
aussiesmg wrote:
N Sperlo wrote: What IS a real race car?
A dedicated race car, is how I took it.
I guess we need to know what Bohead wants to race, then. You can start as low as a couple hundred and work your way up very quickly.

Bohead?

gofastbobby New Reader
12/6/13 11:08 a.m.

I have a $1000 saturn that is only autocrossed. Technically, it is a dedicated race car.

N Sperlo MegaDork
12/6/13 11:08 a.m.

In reply to jstein77:

LOL. Ooops!

icaneat50eggs HalfDork
12/6/13 11:48 a.m.

When you can grab a handful of 100 dollar bills, light them on fire, and not really care.

N Sperlo MegaDork
12/6/13 11:53 a.m.

icaneat50eggs wrote: When you can grab a handful of 100 dollar bills, light them on fire, and not really care.

I completely disagree.

oldeskewltoy Dork
12/6/13 11:56 a.m.

We just sold the Loynings FF Lola... and it sold for well under $20,000...

Formula Fords go anywhere in the range of $6000, to $25,000... typically... some will run more

Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
12/6/13 11:58 a.m.

Common wisdom says when you reach the top rung of HPDE or decide W2W is for you... but I'd say it's time when you make the decision to get a rollbar. When you say to yourself "I'm going kinda fast - I should safety up a bit" - that is the time to jump in with both feet and quit playing around with street cars.

The slow iterative process of turning a street car into a race car is tons more expensive than buying a race car and unless you possess a crystal ball about what class you might end up in... it's not going to fit well anywhere when your done.

Race cars are the perfect tool for race tracks. It's simple - get the right tools as soon as you can.

yamaha PowerDork
12/6/13 12:04 p.m.

1/4 midgets or karts when you're in still in middle school......

Apexcarver PowerDork
12/6/13 12:05 p.m.

I have been eyeballing F500's (eventual F600) or Formula Fords myself.

Thing is, most trackdays and timetrials don't allow formula cars, so you are limited in the events you can go to.

Add to that, the autocross club I run with right now requires tagged and insured.

Thinking something like a SpecRX7 or old IT car is a better propisition as I am more interested in time trial than wheel to wheel

z31maniac UltimaDork
12/6/13 12:07 p.m.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Common wisdom says when you reach the top rung of HPDE or decide W2W is for you... but I'd say it's time when you make the decision to get a rollbar. When you say to yourself "I'm going kinda fast - I should safety up a bit" - that is the time to jump in with both feet and quit playing around with street cars. The slow iterative process of turning a street car into a race car is tons more expensive than buying a race car and unless you possess a crystal ball about what class you might end up in... it's not going to fit well anywhere when your done. Race cars are the perfect tool for race tracks. It's simple - get the right tools as soon as you can.

I put fixed backs, harnesses, and a roll bar in my car before my first HPDE.

After wrecking at a Motorcycle day on track, I wasn't willing to skip on safety equipment.

Not to mention, it's so much easier to drive with a proper seat and harnesses.

Driven5 Reader
12/6/13 12:25 p.m.

The question appears to be in regards to the nut behind the wheel being ready, rather than the wallet being ready. So I'll assume that the wallet is ready enough. Personally I think that if you have reasonable self-preservation skills and have already learned reasonable car control (autox, karting, etc) skills, you're essentially ready. If you're lacking in the former, you may never be 'ready', but you also wouldn't have the wherewithal to let that stop you anyways. If you're lacking the latter, it's easy enough to learn. You simply have to be willing and able to drive the car within YOUR limits at first, rather than the cars limits.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
12/6/13 12:31 p.m.

Driven5 wrote: The question appears to be in regards to the nut behind the wheel being ready, rather than the wallet being ready.

IMO, If you can drive a car at all you can drive a race car. If you had it from day one like you would if you went to Skip Barber or whatever you would be better off. The day you make the mental commitment that this is a hobby you want to pursue... that's the day to start the ball rolling.

Looking back on a long, expensive journey of doing it wrong ... It is never too soon.

BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
12/6/13 12:31 p.m.

N Sperlo wrote:
aussiesmg wrote:
N Sperlo wrote: What IS a real race car?
A dedicated race car, is how I took it.
I guess we need to know what Bohead wants to race, then. You can start as low as a couple hundred and work your way up very quickly.

What I want to race: