When I've gone to the auto show here I've noticed that the exhibitors often remove certain parts like shift knobs, so they can't be stolen. I haven't seen outright vandalism from the kids, but it does seem like they're always cutting in front of me to jump in the driver's seat of the car I'm looking at. The worst, though, are the people with the double wide strollers who are always blocking pedestrian traffic.
Rowdy kids suck...
When I take my cousins to the strip bar they're stealing the girls tips. They're pulling on their g-strings. They're even pestering them during my lap dance. It just ruins the whole scene.
Then I get mad and they cry. After that I'M THE BAD GUY?! Wtf dude.
When I was at the auto show on saturday, I had a great time with my wife.
I didn't see much in terms of abuse, but I had an "incident" with one of the attendants at the MINI booth.
I was comparing manual shifting action between a number of small cars, including Mazda 2, Chevrolet Sonic, MINI Cooper JCW, etc. Anyway, the JCW shifter felt pretty good, so I was rowing it through the gears fairly quickly in the joy of its shifting action. (Note that I've only driven a manual on cars with 100k+ miles, so YMMV...) The attendant came up to me and asked me to stop "because I could break the car."
I was rather ruffled by it, and I said that I'm fine stopping, but using the shifter in anger as it's intended to be used is not going to hurt it. If a JCW MINI can't stand someone shifting the gears for two minutes, then I wouldn't be interested.
Actually, most of the children I saw were not that bad.
I struggle with my kids on a daily basis. They're a real handful. However, they're pretty well behaved in public and are more tractable for people who are not their parents. We've taken them out in public since they were brand new and impressed upon them why being polite and mannered is so important. So, they're socialized and have as much understanding of how things work as they can crammed in their brains.
I take solace in the fact that i I've done nothing else for my kids, I will have taught them manners.
alfadriver wrote:irish44j wrote: While uncontrolled children and parents not teaching respect for property (especially other peoples' cars) piss me off, I can't say that I "feel bad" for the manufacturers or their car show cars. I actually prefer that they get pulled at, picked at, and abused at shows. Because when I buy a car, I want to know that it can stand up to the 3-year-old that will be riding in the backseat....or a carload of drunken friends coming home from a football game....or me slamming things around on a snow day or track day. If the shifter head falls off after being knocked around a bit....well, that's a car I'm not interested in owning...... I also get terribly annoyed at car shows when a car is parked there with a sign that says "please do not touch the vehicle" or something to that effect. Last show I was at had a black Continental GT sitting there with such a sign. I made a point to put a big sweaty handprint right in the middle of the hood. If you don't want me to touch your car, then don't bring it to a car show that I have to pay to get in to. Print out a big glossy poster to show me what it looks like, because that's just as useful to me as a car that I can't touch or get into. I have the internet. I already know what your car looks like. The internet, however, cannot tell me if the seats are comfy, or if the doors shut with a quality "thud" or if the steering wheel is a good thickness. If I can't mess with it, I don't care if it's at the show.So you are planning for your kids to be kicking the shifter? And then planning on them jumping on the back of your car? Or find it perfectly acceptable when your friends get unruly in your car? You want to make sure that your back seats are puke tolerant? And you don't feel bad that it's a "big company" when it comes to valdalism? But if that show car was built by one person, and owned by one person, you would not put your hand print on the hood? Just asking.
+111111111
Xceler8x wrote: Rowdy kids suck... When I take my cousins to the strip bar they're stealing the girls tips. They're pulling on their g-strings. They're even pestering them during my lap dance. It just ruins the whole scene. Then I get mad and they cry. After that I'M THE BAD GUY?! Wtf dude.
I have not witnessed any of the kind of problem children at auto shows around here, but once I did accidentally pinch a kid's fingers in the door of a Lotus Elise.
I felt really bad about it, but then, when I got in the car, the kid's hand was not in the way.
Bottom line, is kids are unpredictable, and may not realize where the pinch zones are on an unfamiliar car, and you need to take extra care around them. I've been a lot more careful of others since then in the auto show environment.
alfadriver wrote:irish44j wrote: While uncontrolled children and parents not teaching respect for property (especially other peoples' cars) piss me off, I can't say that I "feel bad" for the manufacturers or their car show cars. I actually prefer that they get pulled at, picked at, and abused at shows. Because when I buy a car, I want to know that it can stand up to the 3-year-old that will be riding in the backseat....or a carload of drunken friends coming home from a football game....or me slamming things around on a snow day or track day. If the shifter head falls off after being knocked around a bit....well, that's a car I'm not interested in owning...... I also get terribly annoyed at car shows when a car is parked there with a sign that says "please do not touch the vehicle" or something to that effect. Last show I was at had a black Continental GT sitting there with such a sign. I made a point to put a big sweaty handprint right in the middle of the hood. If you don't want me to touch your car, then don't bring it to a car show that I have to pay to get in to. Print out a big glossy poster to show me what it looks like, because that's just as useful to me as a car that I can't touch or get into. I have the internet. I already know what your car looks like. The internet, however, cannot tell me if the seats are comfy, or if the doors shut with a quality "thud" or if the steering wheel is a good thickness. If I can't mess with it, I don't care if it's at the show.So you are planning for your kids to be kicking the shifter? And then planning on them jumping on the back of your car? Or find it perfectly acceptable when your friends get unruly in your car? You want to make sure that your back seats are puke tolerant? And you don't feel bad that it's a "big company" when it comes to valdalism? But if that show car was built by one person, and owned by one person, you would not put your hand print on the hood? Just asking.
I think the point he was trying to make (that I agree with) is that if a car can't handle two or three days of abuse like that, odds are the interior won't be in good shape 10, 15 years down the road from now. Of course it's a somewhat apples-to-orangutans comparison, but I see where he was coming from. I don't tolerate much idiocy in my truck, but it's nice to know if E36 M3 gets out of hand, the truck isn't going to fall apart.
As you're aware, a manufacturers' show is a very different environment from a custom car show, and should be treated as such. Cars there are, for the most part, to be handled and examined. Now, I in no way condone kids kicking shifters and things like that, but I think that's a far cry from attacking a car with spray paint out of spite.
stuart in mn wrote: When I've gone to the auto show here I've noticed that the exhibitors often remove certain parts like shift knobs, so they can't be stolen. I haven't seen outright vandalism from the kids, but it does seem like they're always cutting in front of me to jump in the driver's seat of the car I'm looking at. The worst, though, are the people with the double wide strollers who are always blocking pedestrian traffic.
Yes, that's common practice by the car companies to remove radio and HVAC knobs, manual shifts knobs, disconnect the fuel filler door release or just about anything that is easily removed. I didn't see much of it this year but in the past some of the cars have had thin wire mesh over the open engine bays as people will steal oil caps, dip sticks, fuses etc.
A couple of years ago I had a friend work the auto show and he said one of the cars had the entire gauge cluster taken. Now obviously this was by some one that had prior intent and the tools to do so.
That always bothers me to a point- A- I get it, people are shady. But how the hell am I really supposed to get a feel for the ergonomics of the car, if the damn shift knob is missing? I sure as hell don't want to go to the dealer and get pestered to trade my car in.....
unevolved wrote: I think the point he was trying to make (that I agree with) is that if a car can't handle two or three days of abuse like that, odds are the interior won't be in good shape 10, 15 years down the road from now. Of course it's a somewhat apples-to-orangutans comparison, but I see where he was coming from. I don't tolerate much idiocy in my truck, but it's nice to know if E36 M3 gets out of hand, the truck isn't going to fall apart. As you're aware, a manufacturers' show is a very different environment from a custom car show, and should be treated as such. Cars there are, for the most part, to be handled and examined. Now, I in no way condone kids kicking shifters and things like that, but I think that's a far cry from attacking a car with spray paint out of spite.
So you also expect that the car should survive things that are well beyond reasonable expectations and survive. You want your parts so overbuilt that they can withstand a temper tantrum by a 5 year old kicking it, and then pulling it off- that should not break the car. And the trunk should be so strong to support a jumping child.
Hanlding of car (as with the example of going through the shifter, or using the switches, or things like that) is nowhere near vandalism. Kicking parts of the car and jumping on it is. (or keying it, as was another example)
That, and for a board who is so pro business, I find it very disturbing that you are very happy with Big Auto Company taking it in the chin for reasons due to accpetable vandalsim (which there is no such thing). Shocking. 
Much like people making massive mods to their car, and expecting the manufacturer to cover the engine blow up. That's ok, since the company is so big....
You all do know that real people work at said Big Auto Company, and real people actually spent hours, if not days, preparing the car to be show at said show. But since they work for Big Auto Company, it's ok to abuse their work.
Does it really matter whether it belongs to an individual or Big Auto? Point being it belongs to someone else and should be respected just the same.
Do you really think you can expect a young child to differentiate? You can trash this car but you must respect that one. Yeah right. You can't go wrong teaching them to respect ALL property regardless of owner.
In reply to alfadriver:
I see your point regarding overbuilding cars. A counterpoint:
It is perfectly reasonable to expect a small child to grab and pull on anything they can get their hands on. Likewise, it is perfectly reasonable for someone to slip on the ice and hit a quarter panel with their arm as they try to catch themselves (as I've done it). I guarantee I generate more energy if I fall than a 5 year old. It may not be reasonable to expect a panel to resist that kind of energy transfer, though.
One of those is testable through simple observation (can I grab and pull on this?) without doing damage, one is not.
I've been taking my 3 kids to autoshows since the oldest was in a stroller... he's 11 now. Yes, they touch things like crazy and love having their pictures taken while behind the wheel, but they've never damaged anything. They also know and respect why there is a rope around some cars, not a problem for them. And, the 2 boys are pretty daring... think riding a skateboard off the roof into the bushes.
I've only had one problem at a car show. It was outside one of the local burger joints. Older gentleman had a "something something" old roadster with an open rumble seat and metallic gold paint. My youngest put his hands gently on the edge so he could peer into the rumble seat... he didn't know what it was. The guy went ballistic. There was no sign, no rope, no anything to imply not to touch. He went on to say how he just finished painting the car, blah blah blah. He then reached for my son who just had his fingertips on the car... security(off duty cops) sided with me, they witnessed the whole thing. I even asked him afterwards if he had driven his car to the show, he said yes.
Stupid silly man, this was during 1 of the 2 love bug seasons we have here in Florida... but my kid can't put his fingertips on your car? You can't drive a mile without having them glued to your windshield and grill... I'm talking about the love bugs, not the kid;).
Autoshows have been great for my kids. They've learned about car pricing, different models, engine sizes, economy, utility, etc... all in one place and in a fun atmosphere, though my daughter keeps an eye out for the evil clowns that walk around making balloon animals for kids.
Mark
Brett_Murphy wrote: In reply to alfadriver: I see your point regarding overbuilding cars. A counterpoint: It is perfectly reasonable to expect a small child to grab and pull on anything they can get their hands on. Likewise, it is perfectly reasonable for someone to slip on the ice and hit a quarter panel with their arm as they try to catch themselves (as I've done it). I guarantee I generate more energy if I fall than a 5 year old. It may not be reasonable to expect a panel to resist that kind of energy transfer, though. One of those is testable through simple observation (can I grab and pull on this?) without doing damage, one is not.
Only if you let them. And that seems to be the point here.
Well over expected usage is tested. I don't see how that correlates to temper tantrums.
Again, with a group like this, mostly wanting smaller, ligher cars- there's a want for heavier, uuber overbuilt stuff in them. Seems odd.
I have to disagree with much that has been said here. You should always treat other peoples property with the upmost of respect. Paying an admission makes you a spectator it doesn't give you the right to abuse, break or destroy anything. When people come into your home you expect them to respect your property. If you stood at the door and charged them $5.00 to come into your house would you then say they had the right to do anything they wanted say jumping up and down on the sofa or changing all the settings on your TV. When you yourself own something you can then treat anyway you would like, including destrying it. Many people do just that.
I taught our children that same respect and am doing the same with grandchildren. Sometimes our children and especially their spouses don't agree. When they go out into my shop there are very few things they can't touch, pickup or do but they must ask first. Of course there are safety issues and it must be age appropriate. I take my grandkids (girls & boys) to car shows, cruise nights, etc. and always explain the rules before getting there.
Many parents make excuses for their children that they are too young to understand, don't listen, etc. instead of disciplining them and teaching them how to act. My wife runs a day care and tells me many parents just don't want to hear about behavior problems and has even been told thats what I pay you to do. Paying an admission or for a service doesn't give you a right to destroy anything or not to be responsible.
In reply to alfadriver:
I should have been more clear. I was responding to this: So you also expect that the car should survive things that are well beyond reasonable expectations and survive.
As I said, small kids (up to about 18 months old, possibly a little longer) will grab and pull on anything. It's not a reasonable expectation that they will do this, it is a given constant.
Cars should be engineered to resist this. They're not, because everyone seems to underestimate Baby Grip Per Square Inch.
In response to this: Only if you let them. And that seems to be the point here.
I wasn't speaking about car shows, I was talking about real world conditions. In the real world, it's impossible to stop them when you're driving and not be a menace to those around you.
That's why I want to know if they can do it going into a car purchase, and why I said an estimation of the potential damage can be done visually without damaging the car.
There's one thing more irritating than being stuck in traffic while your 6 month old waves the trim to the C pillar around in the backseat, and that is the cracking noise it makes when they pull it off in the first place.
In reply to Brett_Murphy:
we are talking about the same thing.
And I still don't agree.
Wasn't a whole lot of crazy kids at the DC show last year. It starts this weekend if anybody wants to go! I showed my FV last year. It had 2 "look but no touch" signs, and yeah, there were hand prints but no broken fiberglass or stolen things (I did remove the steering wheel and other things that can be messed with). It was getting looked at respectfully by most people and some asked questions, I helped a few little kids (and a grown man or two) scramble in and out, but I felt comfortable enough where I walked around the whole show without worrying. I think it depends on what time you go. If you're going by yourself to really check a car out, go later at night, past 8pm or so b/c no parent wants to deal with tracking their kid down in a big area past then. If you're taking your kids, take them earlier in the day so you can show them off to the bad parents.
Steven
the only things that everyone can agree with is that most people are a-holes and wont do squart with thiers kids and let them do anything they want. and if you said say something...haven forbid getting the wrath of god down at you from them.....
alfadriver wrote:irish44j wrote: While uncontrolled children and parents not teaching respect for property (especially other peoples' cars) piss me off, I can't say that I "feel bad" for the manufacturers or their car show cars. I actually prefer that they get pulled at, picked at, and abused at shows. Because when I buy a car, I want to know that it can stand up to the 3-year-old that will be riding in the backseat....or a carload of drunken friends coming home from a football game....or me slamming things around on a snow day or track day. If the shifter head falls off after being knocked around a bit....well, that's a car I'm not interested in owning...... I also get terribly annoyed at car shows when a car is parked there with a sign that says "please do not touch the vehicle" or something to that effect. Last show I was at had a black Continental GT sitting there with such a sign. I made a point to put a big sweaty handprint right in the middle of the hood. If you don't want me to touch your car, then don't bring it to a car show that I have to pay to get in to. Print out a big glossy poster to show me what it looks like, because that's just as useful to me as a car that I can't touch or get into. I have the internet. I already know what your car looks like. The internet, however, cannot tell me if the seats are comfy, or if the doors shut with a quality "thud" or if the steering wheel is a good thickness. If I can't mess with it, I don't care if it's at the show.So you are planning for your kids to be kicking the shifter? And then planning on them jumping on the back of your car? Or find it perfectly acceptable when your friends get unruly in your car? You want to make sure that your back seats are puke tolerant? And you don't feel bad that it's a "big company" when it comes to valdalism? But if that show car was built by one person, and owned by one person, you would not put your hand print on the hood? Just asking.
Do you have kids or pets? Do I "plan" on having these things happen? No, I'd like to think not. But in reality they do happen, when you have small children or pets. I'm not sure where the "jumping on the back of the car" thing came from as I didn't say anything about that. And no, my shifter hasn't been kicked, but I did have the carsick-dog-on-a-long-road-trip throw up all over the shift console of our 4Runner (that was fun to clean), and a turn signal stalk on the wrx broken by my 3-year-old daugher pretending to drive and using too much force when "signaling" when I wasn't looking for 2 seconds.
Drunk friends in my car because I'm DD'ing them. I'd rather have them break the rear cupholder or something, than get in a car themselves and drive and kill someone. Sorry if there are things more important to me than the interior of my car. ANything they break they'll be paying to fix once they sober up, trust me.
Touching the paint on a car with my hand is not on the list of things I consider "vandalism," sorry. And as for little crap getting broken in auto show cars, I wouldn't do it intentionally but certainly wouldn't sweat it if done accidentally. These are DEMO cars basically. We give out demo skis at our shop, and guess what....they don't come back looking brand-new, nor do we expect them to. GM, Ford, etc....do not expect their auto show demo cars to be kept in mint condition. THIS is why I care not about putting my handprint on a corporate demo in jest. Especially when I know someone will scamper out within seconds to clean it off anyhow. Big deal...lighten up.
And as stated, I would not do such a thing on a personally-owned vehicle - at a show, meet, or supermarket parking lot. If your personal show car is at an auto show, it is clear that it isn't there for "demo" purposes and therefore other rules apply.
Cliffs: Corporate demo cars: handprints ok Personally owned vehicles (show or DD or race): handprints not ok. Any cars: intentional vandalism, not ok.
I was at a car show a few years back where I was looking at a fiberglass replica of a 1932 Ford. A kid (I'd estimate 6-7 years old) ran up to it and jumped - HARD - onto the running board. You could hear it crack, although you could not see it under the rubber scuff guard.
I was very angry, and it wasn't even my ride.
AngryCorvair wrote: In reply to RXBeetle: Who's the guy on the far left? I talked to him for about 15 minutes on Friday night, about CVTs, lack of roll damping with monoshock suspensions, and the general lightness of FSAE cars these days.
That'd be me :D Good to meet you, knowingly or not.
Brett_Murphy wrote: I take solace in the fact that i I've done nothing else for my kids, I will have taught them manners.
I hope to say that in the future
Xceler8x wrote: Rowdy kids suck... When I take my cousins to the strip bar they're stealing the girls tips. They're pulling on their g-strings. They're even pestering them during my lap dance. It just ruins the whole scene. Then I get mad and they cry. After that I'M THE BAD GUY?! Wtf dude.
I give em each their own roll of dimes on the way in
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