Autocrossing a B-Spec Honda Fit?

I'm pretty sure they're classified in CSP, which sounds like Clubber Lang's prediction for his rematch with Rocky Balboa... PAIN!

Will the weight reduction be enough to make them competitive? They consensus I've heard from every individual I've queried this far seems to agree with the statement above. Whaddya say GRM?

It will be slow and awesome.
Slow and awesome is better than fast but lame.

No chance. Are you sure they're csp? I would think fsp would be better (but still too fast)

Then don't worry about being "competitive"... Go driving and have fun... Take a friend and see what you can wring out of the car. My mostly stock 1986 GTi 8v runs in STC against Civics that are lowered and have coilovers. So I am hardly competitive in my class. But I am having fun running... And if I look at the overall results I beat a RX-8, A Solstice, an Evo, an Elise, a couple of Porsches (914 and 944).... BTW, I did beat my son's time when he drove my 97 Jetta. So it was worth it...

noddaz wrote: Then don't worry about being "competitive"... Go driving and have fun...

This is my thinking. The group building it has access to a coupla built EP cars and the Fit would be used for driver development. It would be cheaper and more sensible to just be slow in RTF keeping it stock... but I wants B-Spec!!! Because race car!!!

My understanding is that a B-Spec goes into the same class that its chassis would normally go into.

Since it's been brought up again, I'll post the idea of having a B-Spec specific class. Build the car using the same hardware (maybe minus the cage), and put all B-Spec eligible cars into that class.

The parts are a bargain, IMHO, and it would be interesting to see if the Fit, 2, Fiesta, 500, etc- are all close like they are on the track.

Not sure how close B-spec would be to STF, or whatever the FWD class is called that is lightly modded.

alfadriver wrote: The parts are a bargain, IMHO,

well except for that $14k Kia B-spec kit lol. What is Kinetic thinking with that? No one is going to run a Rio except maybe them!

failboat wrote:

alfadriver wrote: The parts are a bargain, IMHO,

well except for that $14k Kia B-spec kit lol. What is Kinetic thinking with that? No one is going to run a Rio except maybe them!

That's like 5x the total kit for a Fiesta- http://www.fordracingparts.com/competition/Bspec.asp

or

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=9687

the Ford racing page claims that you can build a B-Spec car for $25k, including cage. Brand new car, for the track, and multiple places to race it, $25k. Seems like a bargain.

(FWIW, I found a wreked fiesta for something like $8k- the crash looked pretty superficial, but it was a salvage title. Perfect for racing)

Anyway, $2500 of parts put on a brand new car to compete with a host of other cars prepped exactly the same way, and is quick on race tires- seems like a great place to start a class.

$14k is the # everyone is throwing around on the internet. But the poorly worded website seems to indicate $6k for the kit if you install it yourself? $14k if Kinetic upgrades the car for you. My head kind of hurts trying to decipher...

http://kssmotorsports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=245:heading-title-nuber-3&catid=63:whats-happening-next&Itemid=229

B-Spec cars are specifically mentioned in the 2012 rulebook - top of page 92. Basically, they are run in the respective models normal SP class but must be built to the B-Spec/GCR rules and use the B-Spec tires (vs. the normally unlimited SP tire rule). The rules for Spec Miata in DSP are similar, although the Miata is normally CSP.

failboat wrote: $14k is the # everyone is throwing around on the internet. But the poorly worded website seems to indicate $6k for the kit if you install it yourself? $14k if Kinetic upgrades the car for you. My head kind of hurts trying to decipher... http://kssmotorsports.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=245:heading-title-nuber-3&catid=63:whats-happening-next&Itemid=229

What Does It Cost ?
Cost Of Base new car – Approx $13,600
Kinetic Motorsports Kit To Equip Car : $14,400
Kinetic Motorsports charge to build the car if you choose not to do it yourself: $6,000
Total If you build the car: $28,000
Total if Kinetic Motorsports Builds the car: $34,000 plus tax

Looks like an additional $6k for them to install to me.

Ian F wrote: B-Spec cars are specifically mentioned in the 2012 rulebook - top of page 92. Basically, they are run in the respective models normal SP class but must be built to the B-Spec/GCR rules and use the B-Spec tires (vs. the normally unlimited SP tire rule). The rules for Spec Miata in DSP are similar.

Technically, that's not really a B-Spec specific class- that's just telling you that if you build a B-Spec car, it's just another Street Prepared car. Even though it's not close to a full street prepared spec. And to your enjoyment, we'll restrict you to a tighter set of rules vs. the rest of the class (spec tires, no engine work/tuning, spec exhaust, and no weight savings).

Now, if they move the cars DOWN a class (like the Spec Miata), that would be reasonable. But just putting them into their own SP class isn't anything besides very, very obvious (and not exactly competitive).

But, that's just me....

I suppose... but IIRC, these cars are already in FSP, so there's not really a lower class to go to. It seems that usually the SEB is somewhat conservative when creating classes. I'd guess that given how new the whole B-Spec GCR class is in general, they're going to wait and see how many cars actually get built and run before going out of their way to address them with regards to a venue they aren't really intended to run at. I don't imagine most serious B-Spec drivers will really care about auto-x beyond basic testing and driver acclimation, which is usually the case when I've seen guys show up with Spec Miatas or E30's - they're just there to drive the car and make sure it works before an event since most aren't street legal anymore. We have guys show up with Lemons cars for the same reason.

$28K - $13.6K = $14.4K, and that's the build-it-yourself price. For a car that they couldn't even get to run right with a legal restrictor. Come on, Kenetic, you should be able to do better than that.

alfadriver wrote: Technically, that's not really a B-Spec specific class- that's just telling you that if you build a B-Spec car, it's just another Street Prepared car. Even though it's not close to a full street prepared spec. And to your enjoyment, we'll restrict you to a tighter set of rules vs. the rest of the class (spec tires, no engine work/tuning, spec exhaust, and no weight savings). Now, if they move the cars DOWN a class (like the Spec Miata), that would be reasonable. But just putting them into their own SP class isn't anything besides very, very obvious (and not exactly competitive). But, that's just me....

I was under the impression that B-Spec cars were gutted.

scardeal wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Technically, that's not really a B-Spec specific class- that's just telling you that if you build a B-Spec car, it's just another Street Prepared car. Even though it's not close to a full street prepared spec. And to your enjoyment, we'll restrict you to a tighter set of rules vs. the rest of the class (spec tires, no engine work/tuning, spec exhaust, and no weight savings). Now, if they move the cars DOWN a class (like the Spec Miata), that would be reasonable. But just putting them into their own SP class isn't anything besides very, very obvious (and not exactly competitive). But, that's just me....

I was under the impression that B-Spec cars were gutted.

I was also under the impression that if they were real B-Spec cars, they would also have cages. steel is normally heavier than foam.

For a brand new car, if you think the stiffness benefit is more than the weight penalty, I know of a few new bridges you can invest in going over the Detroit River.

I'd be willing to wager that a full B-spec car is pretty close to the curb weight of a stock car, which is then heavier than a street prepared spec car.

...and auto-x is not its intended purpose, so why does the SEB need to go out of their way to accomodate it? Creating a whole class for a handfull of specialized race cars seems a bit excessive. Solo has enough classes like that already.

Ian F wrote: ...and auto-x is not its intended purpose, so why does the SEB need to go out of their way to accomodate it? Creating a whole class for a handfull of specialized race cars seems a bit excessive. Solo has enough classes like that already.

I dunno, maybe make the cars more popular for a racing series that they put on? Crazy...

it's not as if they have to do a full B-Spec rule set, but enough that you could get enough interest in the road race serie(s). Some may call that advertising.

But I'm not a member of SCCA, and never will be. Just a suggestion.

alfadriver wrote:

Ian F wrote: ...and auto-x is not its intended purpose, so why does the SEB need to go out of their way to accomodate it? Creating a whole class for a handfull of specialized race cars seems a bit excessive. Solo has enough classes like that already.

I dunno, maybe make the cars more popular for a racing series that they put on? Crazy... it's not as if they have to do a full B-Spec rule set, but enough that you could get enough interest in the road race serie(s). Some may call that advertising. But I'm not a member of SCCA, and never will be. Just a suggestion.

Part of the issue is tech. In auto-x, cars only only checked for basic safety compliance and class compliance is not checked by anyone running the event. It's solely done on the honesty and competitor basis. At the National level there is a protest procedure a competitor can go through if a car's compliance is suspect, but in general this is not scrutenized to the level of car competing in spec GCR classes.

And I honestly don't see how creating an auto-x class for a GCR class would really increase the popularity of the latter. I know a few folks who do both, but in general once they make a commitment to w2w racing, auto-x attendance becomes a casual and mainly just for testing.

F-Mod & F500 is a good comparison for this. A F500 car will always be legal in F-Mod, although probably not competitive against a purpose-built F-Mod car, but as the auto-x safety rules are much more lax, few competitive F-Mod cars could even be set up to run in F500. B-Mod and DSR is similar.

If you want to find reasons not to do it, that's easy.

I'm trying to look at generating more eyes for the watchers- since it's easy to put a $2500 suspension package on a car. Comparing B-Spec to F500/600 or any club level SCCA car is a disservice to B-Spec, since it's intended to reach a national audience, which no club level class, whether it be SCCA or NASA, has done in the last 50 years.

We are talking about Ford, Honda, Mazda, etc all selling more kits that can be used in competition for the low end cars, which may promote the entire race series.

But it IS a whole lot easier to find reasons not to do that. Much, much better to make sure you have drivers who swap tires every single run they take....

Thanks for selling SCCA to me so well.

In reply to alfadriver:

C'mon, Eric.............

You've stated you have no love in how the SCCA operates many times. IIRC, you (long ago) chose to have no affiliation with the club.

Your viewpoint has "some" validity, but other than an opportunity to argue, what are you hoping to accomplish?

alfadriver wrote: I'm trying to look at generating more eyes for the watchers- since it's easy to put a $2500 suspension package on a car.

But if all you're doing is putting the B-Spec suspension on, then there already is a class for the car: STF.

I really don't get the SCCA-hate. I don't blame the SCCA because I did piss-poor research and bought the wrong car for auto-x. I don't blame the car either. It's my own damn fault and I'll pay for it.