I know we have a few major 'Vair experts on the board, so...
How involved would it be to turn a late model coupe into something worth autocrossing? Would it be a matter of a few bolt-ons, or a really significant re-working? I checked out some Corvair autocross vids on the You Tube, and there are some sweet-handling cars, but there are also some real disasters, and I'm not sophisticated enough to tell what is the driver's fault and what is the car's fault.
Note that I don't care about winning anything, just want to have fun.
AC must answer this question, but I had a ball driving his car.
Lift off oversteer for the win.
I'm no Corvair expert, but I seem to recall they need a quick steering kit.
Angrycorvair will know all you need to know.
Locally there's a couple that race in CP. They're fast, when they're running.
i know early ones are swing axle up to 64 i think and will cause you to die immediately after trying to turn around a corner (ralph nader told me that). 65 and up got irs which i assume is better. beyond that i dont know much besides it sounds like a good idea to me
In reply to edizzle89:
Apparently you've never seen a Greenbriar autocross.
edizzle89 wrote:
i know early ones are swing axle up to 64 i think and will cause you to die immediately after trying to turn around a corner (ralph nader told me that). 65 and up got irs which i assume is better. beyond that i dont know much besides it sounds like a good idea to me
I can't remember what speeds ol Ralphie said Corvairs were "unsafe" at, but I'm willing to bet you'll would reach them at an auto-x.
With that out of the way:
Step 1) Bring it and don't think twice. Any run at an auto-x is fun, the car is secondary.
Step 2) Address issues as they come up and keep runnin.
Step 3) ?
Step 4) Profit!
Honestly, a fairly stock Corvair will do well on the autocross. However if you feel the need to mod, the sky is the limit.
What could help are better wheels and tires, HD springs, and a quick steering box.
For AutoX I would say the most essential change is to mod the carbs to avoid cutout. Because of the carb orientation, hard cornering for more then 5 of so seconds and the engine will start to sputter. Much of this is actually gas flooding out of the carb bowl and can be fixed with extended vents. For more extreme cornering, more extreme mods are required (either rotating the carbs, or relocating the jets).
The second one, as noted, is quick steering. Stock Corvairs have VERY slow steering (5.5 turns lock to lock I believe). This can be a pretty big issue when you are trying to countersteer after creating a nice bit of trailing throttle oversteer. A Flaming River box and some quick steering arms will knock that down to 2.5 ish.
Other then that, most of the other mods are more "traditional"
Fun car to AutoX though. The gas pedal is the Traction Pedal, more power = more traction, less power = less traction (and oversteer).
Read this, it should answer any other questions you may have:
http://autoxer.skiblack.com/
In reply to aircooled:
I forgot about the extended vents, that is quite important. Luckily I already have them.
Hungry Bill,
Ralph’s book was titled “Unsafe at Any Speed”.
Shadow Six,
In addition to the other mods mentioned, I think the fan belt needs to be addressed as they tend to fly off at high RPM.
I’m not a Corvair expert so my apologies if I’m mistaken.
Thanks, to everybody!
So it sounds pretty positive overall, eh? Before I posted here I checked out the Corvair forums and those guys say the Late Models handle great, but of course it's hard to gauge the groupthink/circle jerk aspect of a single-model forum.
As for the carbs, would it be sacrilege to mention that I might do the $1500 EFI conversion in the Clark's catalog? I'm 32, I've owned dozens of vehicles, I've DD'ed a 25 yr old truck before, but I know very little about carbs, and nothing about four of them, and nothing about auto (as opposed to motorcycle) carbs.
Also, SBF, didn't you used to work for Larry Claypool? I went back and read a bunch of the old Corvair threads and somebody worked over there...
Are the HD springs and fast steering box you mention available online somewhere?
In reply to ShadowSix:
Yes I used to work for Larry. Unfortunately he is closing down the Vair Shop due to personal reasons.
You should be able to find HD springs at Clark's. Quick steering box however, that you have to keep an eye out for, they come up for sale every so often, but AC is right about a Flaming River box with the quick steering arms.
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
In reply to edizzle89:
Apparently you've never seen a Greenbriar autocross.
Does video of that exist? That sounds amazing!
Ah, I was hoping there was a cheaper, OEM quick steering box. Not that the Flaming River is overpriced, just thought we might be looking at two different things. My understanding is that the arms can be done first for <$100, without doing the box at the same time?
old_gregg wrote:
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
In reply to edizzle89:
Apparently you've never seen a Greenbriar autocross.
Does video of that exist? That sounds amazing!
Ask and ye shall receive!
http://youtu.be/dqErGBbVaNs
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
old_gregg wrote:
SyntheticBlinkerFluid wrote:
In reply to edizzle89:
Apparently you've never seen a Greenbriar autocross.
Does video of that exist? That sounds amazing!
Ask and ye shall receive!
Awesome! You know, when I was watching that, I thought "man, it would be awesome to see one of those rampside pickups doing this, too" AND THEN IT HAPPENED!!!
Yes, the Corvans and Rampys will tripod in the Autocross.
Late models handle great. Do the steering arms for sure; there was a factory quick box, but they are unobtanium.
After Ralphie's book, GM made very sure that oversteer was something never to be seen again, so they rigged the front alignment. Re-align the front end to what we think of as normal performance specs (negative camber, lots of caster) and you'll see a big improvement - dial in some rear negative camber too. Go to at least the reproduction HD springs and good shocks, with modern tires - I think mid-80s 16 inch Camaro wheels are a bolt on. Late Vairs can handle really well.
Carbs - gotta do the vents, flooding is a given with stock carbs.
Fanbelts - always carry a couple of spares, but use top quality belts and keep them properly adjusted and you shouldn't have a problem. We ran a late turbo in the SCCA Pro Rally series (what stage rallies were called then) back in the late 70s and early 80s and never had a belt problem.
Autocrossing a corvair is like fishing without beer!
You bastards... I've been shopping for a new daily driver, and now you have me wondering if I could justify using a Corvair for the commuter grind.
(Only 34.8% serious, but I did notice that $3000 Corvairs on Craigslist aren't that much worse than what I've seen in $3000 Hondas...)
....But would it RALLYCROSS...?
AutoX a Greenbrier? I will just add this pic I took that I have posted a few times:
I am also a fan of this pic. I do wish the facial expressions were a bit clearer but I think you get the idea:
RX Reven' wrote:
...In addition to the other mods mentioned, I think the fan belt needs to be addressed as they tend to fly off at high RPM..
Good point, I forgot to mention that. To clarify though, it's not really the high RPM that throws them (or many times flips them) it's a rapid change of rpm at higher rpms. Downshifts or getting on and off the throttle quickly at high rpm are a prime cause.
This is not a huge issue with stockish cars, but when you start lightening things (flywheels etc) and improve the rpm response it becomes more of an issue. Especially true if you use a standard (non-cut down) cooling fan. The engine slows down, the fan keeps going.... the belt is stuck in the middle.
Solutions? (first of all everything must be well aligned and in good condition) Well, from my experience, you can go too ways:
Go Tight: Make the idler pulley free moving and put a LARGE spring on it to absorb variations. This is a common racer solution. The downside is, as you can imagine, it's going to be a bit hard on the fan bearing (side load), so maybe not the ideal solution for a street driven car. I honestly think you could go with a softer spring and some sort of dampener to absorb the variations (no actual data on this)
Go Loose: Essentially set it up as stock, but make sure the belt is on the loose side and LUBE THAT BABY UP! Spray it will silicone, so when the engine changes speed, the belt just slips. This is what I do, and has worked much better then the spring method.
I will just add... I was at an AutoX (practice) years ago... no where near the fastest car, certainly not the newest or prettiest. I pull in to line up after a few runs and a girl there asks if she can have a ride. I say "sure, but why me", and she says "because it looked like you were having the most fun". That was the day I found out what blistered tires look like