Automatic braking

Apparently it is going to be mandatory equipment in 6 years, with manual transmission vehicles taking a bit longer. I am wondering how that will affect autocross, much less wheel to wheel driving.

https://consumerist.com/2016/03/16/automatic-emergency-braking-to-be-standard-in-cars-by-2022/

Well, this just confirms it. I'm probably never owning a car made after the mid-2000s. That might be a problem in 50 years when I'm an old guy, but we'll see.

In normal driving, autocross is normal, right ? , I don't see it having much effect. From what I see it actuates when the driver is not braking and about to hit something. I doubt cones would count.

Every car that has it now has a way to disable it if necessary, AFAIK. I'm sure any sporty car will have a way to turn it off.

It's an option on the current Mazda CX-5. From what I understand, it's a two-step thing on that car. If the car notices you're coming up on what it thinks is a likely emergency braking event, it'll push the pads a bit closer to the rotors for faster response. IIRC, Mercedes introduced something like this about a decade ago.

Then, if it thinks you're about to actually crash, it'll apply the brakes for you. Basically, if you're getting within panic stop distance of an immobile object. It works off a radar sensor behind the grille badge (look for the ones that appear to have solid black around the M, not the ones that are hollow) so it looks as if it could be defeated.

However, if you find yourself within panic stop distance of an immobile object during wheel-to-wheel or an autox, something has gone quite wrong and you're quite likely on the brakes already.

Early cars with the system (Lexus?) would brake for approaching cones, thinking you were going to plow straight into them instead of using the big round thing that people rest their forearms on while texting.

Not sure if newer cars are any better.

Probably won't effect anything. I would be more worried about side air bags popping when you take a sharp corner, and the car trying to prevent you from taking that corner. Right now most cars you can disable stability control usually with the loss of anti lock brakes. I have heard of Camaros popping air bags and I have seen a newer Miata do it. I also saw a BMW pop it's rollover bars.

More useless crap, so the stupid in the world won't kill themselves and others.

I'd rather see them attach a spike in the middle of the steering wheel, and a taser in the seat controlled by the following driver.

Between my wife and myself we have been licensed drivers for 59 years. Neither of us has ever plowed into something resulting in a collision that one of these automatic braking systems would prevent. I get that sometimes unexpected things happen, but what ever happened to people just being responsible to drive when they are behind the wheel? I see the commercials where the jackass is taking their teen-aged daughter to school and is saved by the automatic braking....only because they were not driving, they were acting as if they were a passenger who happened to be sitting behind the wheel. As much as detest and am wary of self-driving cars, I have to admit they are a good solution for the large numbers of idiots out there who do not give driving the respect it deserves.

I think we could call this the texting law.

In reply to T.J.:

Its these new fangled things that make drivers less...driver like

I would like to think it's an unnecessary rule but at least one a week I respond to a bus that was run into from behind in a bus stop. It's also rarely done by the stereotypical kid texting but usually an older guy like the ones that tend to rant about the govt intruding into their life for no reason. If this takes off maybe I'll get a lunch break now and then.

I think that as they try to idiot proof cars, they just make better idiots.

However- I can't even estimate how many hours I've wasted in traffic due to minor rear end collisions and rubberneckers. I've also been rear ended a couple times.

In the last 35 years I've had two situations were the automatic braking would have cuase me to crash.

The first was when some who didn't want to wait in the tail back yo head swung across the freeway onto the roadright in front of us. I was my old Showroom Stock Miata (I kept it registered) I ended up diving onto the dirt shoulder. Had the braked as I made a high speed slalom it would unsettled it to the point that no stability control would have managed to correct especially with two wheels partially on the pavement.

The other was a guy in the right lane had a tire let go J hooked accoss the freeway pounded the center wall instantly coming to a rest blocking my lane. Myself and the car next to me both braked as the car swung across the highway, I was clearly was not going to get the car stopped before hitting the stopped car and was boxed in, I came off the brakes and sliced through the gap between the car next to me and the stationary car. Had Mr automatic braking kicked I'd have no option. End of the day we'll be stuck with the nannys because most poeple drive so poorly.

Because stupid people don't get that 30,000 or so die in car crashes I understand why the cars have them but you need to be able to turn them off. Even something as simple as anti lock braking, there are a couple of off road situations where anti lock brakes make things far worse. If the truck is in 4wd I should have the option of turning it off.

Tom

I guess I'll take an opposite view from many here on this. I have no problem with it. We can all wax poetic about how we used to drive barefoot in the snow uphill both ways on bald summer tires and liked it, but today's drivers are what they are. We've all been on the roads and see how people pay attention to everything but driving their cars. It's not right, I hate it, want it to change. But until it does, I see nothing wrong with a system that can prevent your typical brainless driver rear end accident. It's not going to prevent the accidents where someone runs a red light and pulls right out in front of you, nothing really will. But if it helps my wife and kids (or me) not get rear ended by some dumb ass who can't be bothered with paying attention to the road, then I see no problems with it.

To me, I see this as more of a safety tool in the same vein as airbags and back up cameras. Their nice to have to supplement my own driving skills. And what Keith said about autox and HPDE applies to the street. If you find yourself within panic stop distance of an immobile object, something has gone quite wrong already. It's not the cars' fault.

Klayfish wrote: To me, I see this as more of a safety tool in the same vein as airbags and back up cameras. Their nice to have to supplement my own driving skills.

Add to that ABS and stability control. I think these are good things.

+1 to the above.

Annoying to have on an enthusiast car? Probably.

Do I want everyone else on the road to have these systems? Absolutely.

Boost_Crazy wrote: I think that as they try to idiot proof cars, they just make better idiots.

This needs to be quoted in the magazine.

Ive been through the demos of one of these systems. They dont self apply brakes until the last second. They give an sound and dash warning first. They also may not prevent the collision but can reduce the severity. We were driving towards a big car shaped balloon and I hit it but at less than 5 mph rather than the 45 I was going. I was pretty impressed. It doesn't gently apply the brakes, its a full tire squeal ABS event.

I view it like an airbag. I thinks its a good thing to have installed but I hope its never needed. In 2046 when somebody is building a Challenge car out of an automatic emergency brake equipped car, Im sure there will be well documented ways to removed the feature.

Of course the government/aliens/bad guys from a Bond movie can likely figure out a way to cause traffic jams by pointing lasers at the highway, engaging the brakes, and using the resulting pandemonium to use martial law/take over the planet/steal the expensive jewels from a museum.

My TC light blinks sometimes in the winter until the tires gain traction. No biggee. The stability control only works when the rear wheels speeds differ, at least on my Fiesta. Both wheels sliding on smooth ice won't engage it. I don't know how this will effect an autocross wheel lift. The only time my ABS enacts is when it is winter slippery. I have made some really hard stops in the dry. No ABS yet.

If airbags go off at an autocross, something is wrong with the system. It takes a hard hit, normally.

My whole point is that most of these things are there if you need them. Otherwise, drive happy.

logdog wrote: Of course the government/aliens/bad guys from a Bond movie can likely figure out a way to cause traffic jams by pointing lasers at the highway, engaging the brakes, and using the resulting pandemonium to use martial law/take over the planet/steal the expensive jewels from a museum.

Isn't that basically the plot of the original Italian Job? Create a massive traffic jam by messing with the stoplights, then escape from the heist in little nimble cars?

I have blind spot monitoring (BSM) in our Mazda. It's nice to have a little indicator light in your peripheral vision out on the mirror. If you signal and the BSM light is on, you get a pleasant "beep."

There are also times where the light comes on for no reason at all. Heavy rain, change in the guard rail or barrier, or sometimes just no damn reason out of the clear blue.

I rented an Impala with the heads-up emergency braking indicator, surely a precursor to the e-braking system. It flashes red lights up onto the windshield and makes a very urgent "BEEP BEEP BEEP," that conveys clearly that the world is about to end. Apparently that system had less confidence in my driving than I do because I activated it twice in what I would call a "typical Washington DC commute."

Automatic brake override sounds good until the first time it goes off in error. To me, following every car out there knowing that it is cocked and locked ready to go into full-on ABS at any given time is...something to think about.

I'm sure they'll prevent 10x more accidents than they cause.

iceracer wrote: If airbags go off at an autocross, something is wrong with the system. It takes a hard hit, normally.

The camaro system is due to an overly sensitive calibration on the sensors that detect a rollover. Trackday/autox guys are the ones operating the vehicle outside of the expected parameters. So it does suck.

Lets face it, safety systems have to be built for the lowest common denominator driver and we can all attest that they are pretty awful.

Hell, they are pushing forward autonomous cars because over 90% of accidents are because of the driver and motor vehicle accidents are one of the leading causes of death in the US.

http://gizmodo.com/why-self-driving-cars-really-shouldnt-ever-have-steerin-1758292942

I welcome this system that could save my old cars from inattentive drivers in new cars

The newest car I might ever possibly own at this point (not counting homebuilt) would be a Toyobaru or ND, and I'm pretty sure those don't have it.

iceracer wrote: My TC light blinks sometimes in the winter until the tires gain traction. No biggee. The stability control only works when the rear wheels speeds differ, at least on my Fiesta. Both wheels sliding on smooth ice won't engage it. I don't know how this will effect an autocross wheel lift. The only time my ABS enacts is when it is winter slippery. I have made some really hard stops in the dry. No ABS yet. If airbags go off at an autocross, something is wrong with the system. It takes a hard hit, normally. My whole point is that most of these things are there if you need them. Otherwise, drive happy.

I seems like airbags going off has happened before at an autox http://jalopnik.com/5915824/watch-a-cadillac-cts-vs-airbags-explode-during-a-pre-wedding-autocross