bang for the buck in shocks/springs?

I have a few ideas for the shock and spring set up for the Supra. Which is the best, which is the best for the money? Are coilovers going to be worth it? Are cheap coilovers any worse than expensive ones?

Option 1 - Koni's and Eibachs. I snagged a used setup about a year ago for 200 bucks, but I was offered 600 for it, and had to take that deal. (Triple your money in two months? Nothing I have ever invested in has shown that kind of return.) So, I currently have some stock replacement stuff on the car to keep it off the ground, but not much more.

New Konis are 112 per rear and 106 per front. A set of Eibach Sports run about 200 for the set. Thats around 640.

Option 2 - For that same 640 bucks I can get a set of cheap knockoff coilovers on Ebay (Godspeed brand). Any experience, any goods, any bads?

Option 3 - Pony a bit more money (960 bucks) for a decent set of K-Sport coilovers.

Option 4 - Used Teins sell for around a grand, is this worse or better than K-sports? Unknown history makes me wary. Worth it?

Option 5 - New Teins. 1300 dollars.....not sure it's worth it.

Konis and Eibachs are much better than a cheap coilover from an engineering, quality, durability and ride perspective. IMO

Do the Konis, but not the Eibachs. Swap out Eibachs for Ground Controls. You'll end up around $850, but have a great setup.

Otherwise, out of your options, i'd go with the KSports. Entry level Teins are nothing to write home about, and i'd actually prefer the KSports over them anyways. Especially for cheaper.

Are the KSports 100 dollars worth better than the Koni-GC route? I like the idea of the adjustability of coilovers, and I was kinda leaning toward the KSports anyway.

I am not aiming for any particular class. Actually this is the first project that I have not had a class in mind during the build. This is just a fast fun street car project. Aiming for very light weight (for a MkIII that is), and about 3-400 horsepower. I am afraid that the Konis and Ground Controls are engineered for a car that would be over 700 pounds heavier than what I am aiming for. How much trouble am I going to be in as the weight comes off?

BTW, I trust HalfTrac mainly because of his Beef Supreme avatar.

Maroon92 wrote: BTW, I trust HalfTrac mainly because of his Beef Supreme avatar.

If you want to maintain streetability and are not so worried about tracking/auto-x, a strut/spring combo will be hard to be. The $1k coilovers (they are all the same) can be made to ride ok... but they'll definitely not ride "nice".

I noticed on Tire Rack that you can get either Bilstein HD's or Koni's for about the same price (and stupid cheap, only ~$100 each)! In that case, if you want it for the street, I'd get the bilstein's, pick a set of springs you want, and then have somebody revalve them for you. If you are looking to track/auto-x, I'd go with the koni's for the adjustability.

Maroon92 wrote: Are the KSports 100 dollars worth better than the Koni-GC route? I like the idea of the adjustability of coilovers, and I was kinda leaning toward the KSports anyway. I am not aiming for any particular class. Actually this is the first project that I have not had a class in mind during the build. This is just a fast fun street car project. Aiming for very light weight (for a MkIII that is), and about 3-400 horsepower. I am afraid that the Konis and Ground Controls are engineered for a car that would be over 700 pounds heavier than what I am aiming for. How much trouble am I going to be in as the weight comes off?

I'd say from a spring/dampening aspect ONLY, the Koni/GC setup is better.

However, KSports will come with pillowball mounts/camber plates, and the height adjustment is a better system.

Your call.

I wouldn't worry about the weight now. Revalve later, adjust spring rates.

For what it's worth, ST_ZX2 on here sold me his Koni/GC/Cusco setup off his car because he swapped out for KSports. The car is faster on KSports from what he tells me.

Obviously, this is two totally different chassis, so take that with as much salt as you need.

well, my e-bay crazy mind has just gotten the better of me. I am holding off on buying suspension stuff until after I find out if I win this Celica GT convertible or not. I may have to shuffle the garage a little bit. LOL>

If I don't get the car, I will probably end up getting the K-sports.

Didn't get the Celica. it's kind of a good thing that I didn't, cuz I am attacking this Supra with a vengeance.

New stainless lines, new pads, freshly rebuilt calipers, and a diff swap are in the cards for this weekend. Possibly the new power steering unit if I get the time.

Of the dampers mentioned, in decreasing order of quality it would be bilstien, koni, tein, k-sport. Eibach lowering springs are often too short and soft for anything other than looks, but there may not be something better available.

Why are the Bilsteins better quality than the Konis? I have always placed them on fairly level playing field. In this instance, the Bilsteins are non-adjustable for the same money as adjustable Koni...

For aftermarket springs, there isn't much except the Eibach.

Just to add to what others have said. Bang for the $$$ the Koni's and Eibach combo is a very good / excellent choice. I run it on my Porsche. I have adjustable sway bars I use those to dial in the car.

I would call Koni and ask them what they recommend for a spring. At the time they recommended the Eibach to me and even today, 15 years later, it is a combo that still stands up against the newer more modern stuff that is out there.

My car was / is a track toy used for DD at the moment but I would do it again the exact same way if I had to. (looking ahead to a 951 at the moment)

For a street car (and perhaps a racecar too), I'd pick Konis over Ksport any day of the week. From what I've seen their damping curves are "better" in a lot of ways - more digressive, more low-speed compression damping, and an actually useful adjustment range. I might be prejudiced though, as I think the Taiwanese coilovers seem to all have overblown rebound damping, making it a harsh ride no matter what springs you fit. Maybe they really are different from the D2/F2/Megan crowd, but I've heard that before.

If it were a budget track beater, the Ksports would be more attractive due to the extra height adjustability, pillow ball mounts, and ride quality be damned.

I'm also a fan of the Eibach prokit springs, at least for a street car. They're really pretty mild in spring rate and drop compared to most stock setups, so I don't see how people think they're just for slammin your ride. It seems they tend follow the formula of around 30% rate increase and around an inch of lowering. I'm pretty sure they're all progressive on all four corners across the board though, so if that's not your thing be aware. That said, a linear-rate GC setup is definitely going to be a step-up in performance. I wouldn't expect it to be as streetable though.

In the end, just drive my mr2 next weekend when we get together on the supra and see what you think. It has the koni-eibach setup and the rest of the suspension is refurb'd so you can get a good idea what the combo might feel like. I know it's little like apples to onions, but at least they're both rwd toyota products from the eighties.

Bilstiens are monotone and koni sports are twin tube, many of the bilstien struts are inverted (like the vw ones) which recduces unsprung weight, bilstiens are made with better parts, they last longer, they are often cheaper, they are less greedy about rebuild charges, etc. Komi sports only have adjustable rebound anyway, so it's not really all that helpful.

If you go with Koni and you are lowering it make sure you get the bump stop spacer things that go on the strut. Bottoming out aKon i will kill it. The valving hits the bottom of the tube and it is all over. The stops are some times included BUT ASK. In the case of the inserts / cartridges that go in the early 944's they are not. They are about $20 for a set.

The reason for this is that by lowering the car with springs you are lowering the static position of the valve body in the strut tube effectively reducing the strut compression travel by what ever you lower the car by. In my case it was 1 1/4". This was enough combined with a pothole to wipe-out a set of Koni's. When I replaced my Koni's about 2 years ago (after 15 plus years of service) I spoke to Lee in the motorsports division at Koni and he clued me in to this.

Again I would give Lee a call and ask about your options as well as the recommended spring for your application when using there product.

Matt B wrote: If it were a budget track beater, the Ksports would be more attractive due to the extra height adjustability, pillow ball mounts, and ride quality be damned.

I don't see why. The reasons you give for using konis on the street car are even more compelling on a track car. Proper (and consistent! ) damping is WAY more important than the stuff that the hardparkers care about.

PS avoid godspeed like the plauge. I bought a set with 30 miles from my friend, and paid $100. I think thats what they are worth. They wore out in 12K miles or so. The front dampeners had play where the shaft goes into the body. Wasn't good.

Id say the same of ksport. Such generic garbage dampeners, but quality is "better" then GS garbage. I did have a friend that put some on his s14 and kinda liked them and 10K miles later they were still ok.

But I'd reccomend the koni shocks and good 2.5in springs every time.

~Alex

MCarp22 wrote: I don't see why. The reasons you give for using konis on the street car are even more compelling on a track car. Proper (and consistent! ) damping is WAY more important than the stuff that the hardparkers care about.

You're probably right. I just didn't want to discount Halftrac's compatriot that swears he's faster with his ZX2. I've never owned Ksports, and I never seen a force vs. velocity dyno chart for them, let alone from an independent source. Therein lies the problem for me - I want proof that the damping curves aren't all wonky and made to "feel" sporty like everything else in that price category (see previous comment on overblown rebound).

Unfortunately you have to treat these bargain coilover companies as guilty until proven innocent.

Travis_K wrote: Bilstiens are monotone and koni sports are twin tube, many of the bilstien struts are inverted (like the vw ones) which recduces unsprung weight, bilstiens are made with better parts, they last longer, they are often cheaper, they are less greedy about rebuild charges, etc. Komi sports only have adjustable rebound anyway, so it's not really all that helpful.

I'm not going to get into a Koni vs. Bilstein debate, as I'm not convinced either way. They are both pretty well respected and successful manufacturers that have been around awhile.

I will however challenge that the Koni sports adjustment "isn't all that helpful". They have a pretty decent range of adjustment, especially at that price point. Also, the rebound-only thing is kinda-sorta a myth. The adjustment affects compression a bit as well, just not as much (it's a pretty small range to be honest).

What size are you looking for? Cheapest springs I find, with a 2.5" diameter, are always at a stock car site. One place has 2.5x14's for $65.

But that may be too much work.

Matt B wrote: I will however challenge that the Koni sports adjustment "isn't all that helpful". They have a pretty decent range of adjustment, especially at that price point. Also, the rebound-only thing is kinda-sorta a myth. The adjustment affects compression a bit as well, just not as much (it's a pretty small range to be honest).

From what I've seen with Konis, the adjusters have a lot of variation between individual shocks. So if you don't have a shock dyno, chances are that "1 turn down from full stiff" adjustment doesn't get you the same rebound force on each shock.

I haven't seen a dyno plot for a koni sport where the compression adjusted along with the rebound. Generally speaking adjuster cross-talk (where rebound knob adjusts compression or vice versa) like you describe indicates a poor quality adjuster.

buy the best dampers you can find

then get inexpensive GC style perches from ebay or a circle track supplier.

then get exact spring rate/length you desire for your usage: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/black-magic-springs-by-southwest-speed/31477/page1/

Eh, if it is cross-talk then it's pretty consistent, minimal, and in-line with the direction of adjustment (stiffer means stiffer all around). I wouldn't consider it a deal-breaker personally.

You did make me curious though, and I did a quick search. There are some Bilstein BST (monotube non-adj) for the mk3 supra at $120-ish a pop, which is cheaper than Koni sports by around $30ish. If price is a big consideration, I might give 'em a try.

The Mk3 Supra Konis are on sale right now at Tire rack for 95 bucks. Maybe now is time to buy!

bluej wrote: buy the best dampers you can find then get inexpensive GC style perches from ebay or a circle track supplier. then get exact spring rate/length you desire for your usage: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/black-magic-springs-by-southwest-speed/31477/page1/

This is solid, will be cheaper than cheap coilovers, and infinitely better in every way.