Personally, I'd rather build or buy a car that was designed or built to a specific ruleset. For something like the UTCC, I'd ponder a F500 or F600 with a special body made for more aero (F500/600 GCR has minimal aero allowances). It's hard to go faster for less money. Then when I'm not doing the UTCC, I'd at least have something to race in other venues.
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
Compared to your BMW???
You race your car against other similar cars, right? Since that's what you do, then what gain do you get going around the track 5 seconds faster when the whole field is doing the same thing?
If you were just open tracking and the goal was as fast as possible, that's one thing. It's quite a bit different when you are racing cars that are similar to yours.
In other words, I'm not sure you need to heed your own advice considering what you already do.
alfadriver wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: Compared to your BMW??? You race your car against other similar cars, right? Since that's what you do, then what gain do you get going around the track 5 seconds faster when the whole field is doing the same thing? If you were just open tracking and the goal was as fast as possible, that's one thing. It's quite a bit different when you are racing cars that are similar to yours. In other words, I'm not sure you need to heed your own advice considering what you already do.
My BMW is in C MOD or GTS5/U. I can go as fast as I can go. The only real rules I have are that it must have once been a real car, a BMW and under 3.5L. If I could get 5 seconds a lap more out of it I'd be a goddamn legend (and possibly responsible for new laws of physics). :)
The other thing real race cars buy you beyond speed is - it's small, light, easily towable, easy to work on, designed to be repaired, etc... and the price is really attractive whe nyou consider the comparable costs associated with racing tin tops. You can't really fix the body work easily. You need a substantial trailer. You carry lots of unused weight and size that wears tires, brakes and so on.
The reason I still race a tin top is because all my friends race them too and it's a party I don't want to leave. Starting over though... I'd have begun differently.
Some sort of AWD converted Modified chassis with custom aero and LS power. Depending on the course, I'd say either Whipple or turbo for power adder. 12-15" wide tires all around and big ass brakes.
Win.
Might be possible if you shop around to find a much older used F1 car then swap in your motor/trans of choice. If there is no provenance just a wild guess but I'd think under $100k would be possible
edit found the link:
http://hooniverse.com/2011/10/17/how-a-man-bought-a-retired-honda-f1-car/
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
Ok, so looking in hind sight, then a (example) CSR may be a more reasonable car to race with- cost, effort, etc?
I can see that as good advice. But it is hard to make the first step, compared to a road car.
Here's another crazy direction: superbike-powered shifter kart with aero.
I'd buy one of the numerous old roundy-round cars I keep posting up from CL for under a grand, fix the suspension with calls to Speedway, get some NASCAR tire takeoffs, and stuff the meanest turbocharged LSX possible in that E36 M3. Think 6.0L iron block truck motor and twin fleaBay Chinese monsters. Kinda like the 1,000HP 4.8 Car Craft/Hot Rod did, only without booming it.
Oh, and I'd leave the 70's Camaro body on it and do lots of lexan aero.
Start with this:
End with this:
Heh, found one!
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/cto/4200715339.html
1978 camaro- sportsman race car - $1300
1978 chevy camaro automatic transmission $3000.00 race ready, $1300.00 roller. Cash only and in person sale. Serious inquiries only! 360-314-5331
In reply to Javelin:
And so it begins . . . 
Used race car is always going to be cheaper than building a new race car.
Converted roundy-round racer could be mighty fast for $10k.
Where would one find a used NASCAR type car, perhaps engineless? It might be interesting to find a chassis that has brakes, suspension, etc still included, but needs an engine, transmission and rear end.
In reply to dyintorace:
There's more than a few here: http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/nascars.htm
Disclaimer: Never dealt with them or know anyone who has. Just flexing some google-fu.
DaveEstey wrote: Used race car is always going to be cheaper than building a new race car.
There's truth here, but a cheap pile of crap keeps you busy while you spend the extra money in small(er) increments.
It's hard to stay out of the cookie jar while twiddling one's fingers and waiting to be ready to write a large check if you don't have something else to keep you busy. Or even if you do...
Not that I'm advocating for this approach. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation 
Is there anything commonly available like a NASCAR chassis but weighs closer to 2500 lbs complete instead of 3500 lbs?
...something I could throw one of these fiberglass bodies on:
(from http://www.artfiberglass.com/auto/679camaro.html)
A short track late model will be about 2500 lbs and more common. Some of the builders like Howe even sell them to be run on road courses so converting on to turn both ways isn't very difficult.
Wally wrote: A short track late model will be about 2500 lbs and more common. Some of the builders like Howe even sell them to be run on road courses so converting on to turn both ways isn't very difficult.
Thanks.
Seems like matching the wheelbase to a stock body might be a challenge. Do you know if these chassis tend to have adjustable wheelbases or might be easy to modify?
I'd find an old IMSA GTU car, update/replace as little as needed, add a monster of a motor, as much aero as i could possible attach, and roll.
Go find a TR7 coupe. Gut it. Install a Ford limited slip rear end. Spend a grand or so on Wilwood brakes, and another grand on good Koni shocks and coil overs on all four corners. Install driveline of your choice as long as it's cheap and powerful. Whatever is left over use it to buy wheels and tires.
OR
dyintorace wrote: Every once and awhile, I fantasize about building a car for the UTCC, as well as HPDEs and time trial type activities.
You mention HPDEs and Time Trial?
Read up on the rules of Time Trial if its important to you at all. Going buckwild for a UTCC car may screw you for time trials.
Plus if anyone serious shows up (like every year), you will get smoked in UTCC overall with a 10-20k budget.
Not trying to be a naysayer, but just would suck to spend 20k to get outballered by guys with 100k+ in their cars at UTCC, and then not have a class to play in at events that are more than once a year.
Slyp_Dawg wrote: 1. Old/semi-uncompetitive F440/F500 2. 1000cc sportbike engine 3. Sports-racer body w/ basic tunnels and wings 4. Actual shocks (MTB shocks or motorcycle shocks or quarter-midget shocks would work) 5. Balls 6. Negative Profit
Fixed that for you...
By the time you spend the money and effort to re-engineer a F440/500 chassis to use a 1000cc engine, add a spring/shock type suspension and all of that aero (keep in mind, F500's have zero aero), you'll be better off just buying an existing C/DSR car in the first place.
Even the F600 guys have pretty much given up on converting existing 2-stroke chassis for the MC engine. It was fine when they were testing the concept, but for actual race cars, it has proved to be not cost effective compared to building/buying a new chassis from scratch.
Plus, the only reason an F500 ever becomes obsolete for GCR is because it's so old the roll hoop is to small to meet current specs. Those cars usually end up as F-Mod autocrossers. The F500 rules have changed so little over the years, that old cars are often still quite competitive if the owner wants it to be.
dyintorace wrote: Where would one find a used NASCAR type car, perhaps engineless? It might be interesting to find a chassis that has brakes, suspension, etc still included, but needs an engine, transmission and rear end.
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/f150-race-truck-1500/74351/page1/
Late model NASCAR with no engine: http://www.race-cars.com/carsales/other/1190644076/1190644076ss.htm
Most of these seem to weigh at least 3000 lbs.
How does one get this down to 2500 lbs? Is really 500 lbs of unnecessary stuff that gets removed when converting one of these to turn both ways?
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:alfadriver wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: Compared to your BMW??? You race your car against other similar cars, right? Since that's what you do, then what gain do you get going around the track 5 seconds faster when the whole field is doing the same thing? If you were just open tracking and the goal was as fast as possible, that's one thing. It's quite a bit different when you are racing cars that are similar to yours. In other words, I'm not sure you need to heed your own advice considering what you already do.My BMW is in C MOD or GTS5/U. I can go as fast as I can go. The only real rules I have are that it must have once been a real car, a BMW and under 3.5L. If I could get 5 seconds a lap more out of it I'd be a goddamn legend (and possibly responsible for new laws of physics). :) The other thing real race cars buy you beyond speed is - it's small, light, easily towable, easy to work on, designed to be repaired, etc... and the price is really attractive whe nyou consider the comparable costs associated with racing tin tops. You can't really fix the body work easily. You need a substantial trailer. You carry lots of unused weight and size that wears tires, brakes and so on. The reason I still race a tin top is because all my friends race them too and it's a party I don't want to leave. Starting over though... I'd have begun differently.
I have an e36 M3 that's pretty close to being a NASA GTS2 car. It lacks the front half of the cage, window net, electrical shutoff and a big wing. I've done 1'26" at Summit and 2'16" at VIR in it, and I'm a much better driver now. I probably have about $25k in the car. It weighs about 2900# ,makes around 245hp and has 245/40-17 Hoosier R6s. which will last most of a season of TT events.
I race an early Radical - the 55th car they made. 2'04" at VIR, 2'13.8" at Summit. I won 10 out of 13 rounds of my regional series this year. I have around $25k in the car. It weighs 1005#, makes about 170hp and has 7" and 9' Hoosier 35A compound bias ply slicks which last 2 weekends.
At a couple rounds I was low lap time of the weekend. That's out of everyone including gazillion dollar Roush-built prototype SPU cars w/ cup motors and fresh tires, all manner of formula cars, and a group of brand new 240hp, 1500cc Radicals.
What's it cost? I spent 80+ days on the race program this year. I rebuilt the car down to a bare tube chassis and made every single piece - I mean all of them - as perfect as possible. I bought the molds and laid up a new body. I vacuum bagged new carbon fiber louvers, difuser and splitter. Blasted and powdercoated everything. 4 sets of Hoosier slicks - or was it 5? The car was apart, cleaned, setup and scaled, nut+bolted before going to Friday practice, and it got a couple hours of prep at the end of each day so it would be perfect for qualifying the next.
My M3 on the other hand requires swapping wheels and bleeding brakes. It's a rolling testament to deferred maintenance.
So, as a racing exercise, as opposed to a bench racing exercise:
Using the lap time = T T/$ formula:
I've posted this before, but here's what 1'14.6" looks like at Summit:
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