best value driver mods?

I am a firm believer that driver mods are the best improvements in making somebody faster, safer, etc. on the race track.  So my question is with a limited budget what would be the best way to spend said limited budget?  For the purposes of the thought experiment lets throw out a budget and some ideas and see if we can make some comparative analysis.  

So for me lets take a $2500 budget spent exclusive to improvement so things like travel costs, lodging, food, incidentals etc not included.  

1. Mid Ohio 3 day school: https://midohio.com/courses/high-performance/3-day-high-performance-course

2. Garmin Catalyst for $1000 and 2 track weekends at $750 a weekend (fuel, tires, brakes, track fees, etc.)

3. something else?

I think the answer is going to depend on the experience level of the person in question.  Totally new, never been to the track before?  5-10 track days, maybe a year or two of autocrossing, looking to go deeper?  Experienced racer looking to shave the last second or so off his lap times?  In my opinion:

- The newbie needs a good school, something like what BMWCCA offers (no experience with the midohio one so I can't comment on it specifically).

- The guy with a few track days under his belt can probably benefit a lot from the Catalyst and more seat time.

- The experienced racer should be looking for a personalized coach and a good squiggly-line data system.

I'm planning to spend $300 or so to join an upcomming 8 week kart club tournament at the local indoor kart track.

It's like 3 20 minute lapping sessions per week. Direct lap time competition with other drivers in similar to exactly the same vehicles, so you can easily and quantitatively track your improvement.

Karts also probably give you more "racing maneuvers" per minute of track time than other venues, so many more chances to practice a technique. 

We're gonna see how it works out for me. My overall goal is to become a faster autox driver.

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

I think that's a good list.

I prefer any form of seat time where you can get one on one instruction:

 The biggest issues I see with new/novice to intermediate level drivers is mindset.  They just start to grasp the fundamentals then they start trying to go fast rather than perfecting the fundamentals. 

As for the driver coach for experienced racers; yes and yes. I've said should I ever have the budget to do a serious RunOffs program I'd make sure part of that program included a driver coach.

I feel like some people would say a good sim setup with coach. 

A better way might be to find a real hot shoe and pay them the money to guide you around your local track a few events. I'd give $1,000 to "local hot shoe Joe"  for a few lessons in lap Times. 

fatallightning said:

I feel like some people would say a good sim setup with coach. 

I think even without a coach and with low grade equipment a quality sim (I like iRacing for this) can help you make the most of your time at the track.  Having the course memorized with a ballpark idea of where the line is and where your points are gives you a good place to start.

IMO the weakness of a sim on a standard monitor is that it doesn't do a good job of giving you a sense of elevation.  A sim just didn't give me the actual sense for how incredibly steep and fast the downhill section between turns 11 and 12 are on Road Atlanta.

On a budget:

+1 to karting

+1 to sim racing

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

Karts also probably give you more "racing maneuvers" per minute of track time than other venues, so many more chances to practice a technique. 

Just remember that indoor kart technique is often very different to normal car (and even normal kart) technique.

Indoor karting is pretty good for learning adaptability though, since the karts are on the surface all the same but inevitably are all tweaked/broken/worn out uniquely.

It's really hard to beat good instruction.  If you're a beginner to intermediate then pretty much any good school is going to be helpful but I'd call and see what part or parts of their program is designed for your skill level and how much individual instruction you're going to get. 

If you're more experienced then a dedicated coach is a great idea. 

I'm a big fan of data and I log every session I'm on track.  I'm not sure how helpful that is without some kind of training in interpreting the data or the ability to compare the data with someone faster.  I've been able to compare my data with several really good drivers including some pros and that's been really helpful. A good coaching session with data would provide similar if not better results.

I have mixed feelings about the Garmin Catalyst.  I've never used one but my understanding is that it provides helpful real-time feedback.  That's great as far as it goes but a good coach will not only give you that feedback but also help you learn how to figure out how to give yourself real-time feedback. 

It's worth noting that being a fast driver and a good instructor are not necessarily the same thing.  I know several really fast drivers who are terrible instructors.

I have no doubt that Sim time with a coach is helpful for some people however, some of us (like me) are very dependent on feedback from the car that you don't get from the Sim and don't really find Sim time all that helpful when it comes to helping with physical race cars.  Someone with more Sim time and or skills is likely to have a different experience.

In reply to Buck Futter :

I've had my entry fee paid for in exchange for a days worth of coaching, the drivers tended to fall into two categories: 

Fast but they'd picked up a bad habit early on that simply needed unlearning. 

 Just needed a different perspective on a particular section of the course and or a fresh approach to those sections. 

I routinely discuss things with other drivers I know to be solid drivers.

For me the number one best option is one on one instruction.......it's by far the most economical.   

MrFancypants said:  A sim just didn't give me the actual sense for how incredibly steep and fast the downhill section between turns 11 and 12 are on Road Atlanta.

The first time I went through the corkscrew at laguna seca in VR was pretty eye opening.  

APEowner said:

It's really hard to beat good instruction.  If you're a beginner to intermediate then pretty much any good school is going to be helpful but I'd call and see what part or parts of their program is designed for your skill level and how much individual instruction you're going to get. 

If you're more experienced then a dedicated coach is a great idea. 

I'm a big fan of data and I log every session I'm on track.  I'm not sure how helpful that is without some kind of training in interpreting the data or the ability to compare the data with someone faster.  I've been able to compare my data with several really good drivers including some pros and that's been really helpful. A good coaching session with data would provide similar if not better results.

I have mixed feelings about the Garmin Catalyst.  I've never used one but my understanding is that it provides helpful real-time feedback.  That's great as far as it goes but a good coach will not only give you that feedback but also help you learn how to figure out how to give yourself real-time feedback. 

It's worth noting that being a fast driver and a good instructor are not necessarily the same thing.  I know several really fast drivers who are terrible instructors.

I have no doubt that Sim time with a coach is helpful for some people however, some of us (like me) are very dependent on feedback from the car that you don't get from the Sim and don't really find Sim time all that helpful when it comes to helping with physical race cars.  Someone with more Sim time and or skills is likely to have a different experience.

I pretty much agree with all of this.  Data is the ultimate answer, and there are a bunch of resources out there to help you understand it.  There are several good books, and AiM has a ton of webinar videos about it.  Our regional BMWCCA school has an "advanced data coaching" group where they'll put a Solo 2 in your car along with a video camera and then the time between sessions you spend looking over the data with your instructor.  They don't just show you what's wrong in that lap, they also teach you how to analyze that data for yourself in the future.

I used a Catalyst briefly (it wasn't mine), and while I can see a couple things it's useful for there are a lot things it's not.  I think it'll help you refine the line and get more consistent, but it's not going to help with brake application techniques for example.

I find sims with flat screens to be completely undrivable because my brain is highly dependent on depth perception for judging speed.  Driving a Miata at Laguna Seca (something I've done many times in real life) in Assetto Corsa I can barely make it 4 turns without crashing.  I tried it with an Index in VR mode and that helps a lot... until it makes me want to puke. :)

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

I find sims with flat screens to be completely undrivable because my brain is highly dependent on depth perception for judging speed.  Driving a Miata at Laguna Seca (something I've done many times in real life) in Assetto Corsa I can barely make it 4 turns without crashing.  I tried it with an Index in VR mode and that helps a lot... until it makes me want to puke. :)

Yeah, I would recommend trying it (OP).  If you ask in your local region's social media/forum/discord/whatever I'm sure you will come across someone who has a pretty decent setup they would let you come over and try in exchange for a 6 pack.  Its a very low investment to see if it may have value.  Its not going to replicate real seat time, but you can clock as many laps as you want, line up against great drivers from all over the place, etc. all on whatever schedule you feel like.  And there is no risk of blowing something up and dragging it home on a trailer or ending up in the hospital.

red_stapler said:

MrFancypants said:  A sim just didn't give me the actual sense for how incredibly steep and fast the downhill section between turns 11 and 12 are on Road Atlanta.

The first time I went through the corkscrew at laguna seca in VR was pretty eye opening.  

Geez, I imagine.  I'm sure the corkscrew is a good bit more steep than the drop at Road Atlanta, but at least with the Corkscrew you're going pretty slow before stepping over the edge.  At Road Atlanta you've got a good bit of space to accelerate (although it is uphill) before cresting the hill and sprinting down it.

I imagine the run through turn 6 and the approach to turn 7 at Lime Rock Park feels very similar...  very fast downhill followed by a high speed turn.  Although at least there you have a bit of runoff to work with.  At Road Atlanta there's just a wall separating the track from the pit lane.

I've always dreamed of driving the Nordschliefe so of course I've probably got over 1000 laps just playing around in a variety of simulators.  The only way I can sort of get a sense for all the insane elevation changes is if I set an aggressively narrow field of view.  I can't imagine how bonkers it must feel to be on the actual track.

I can only relate it to Autocross, but I spent $ on driver training and it did more than spending $$$$ on car mods.

Not sure exactly how you would do this in the driving world, but when hiring one of the big boxes to tick off was if we considered a person to be "Coachable".  No point in spending money on a driving coach if your personality is not wired for it.

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

I can only relate it to Autocross, but I spent $ on driver training and it did more than spending $$$$ on car mods.

how did you spend money on driver training?  

NOHOME said:

 

Not sure exactly how you would do this in the driving world, but when hiring one of the big boxes to tick off was if we considered a person to be "Coachable".  No point in spending money on a driving coach if your personality is not wired for it.

 

 

what do you mean?  Is this something a coach should do before accepting a student or a student should do signing up for coaching?  

I understand that some students are more teachable than others but in my experience teachers who claim a student isn't teachable is more than likely a result of an inflexible teaching style that doesn't mesh with the students learning style.  

ClearWaterMS said:

NOHOME said:

 

Not sure exactly how you would do this in the driving world, but when hiring one of the big boxes to tick off was if we considered a person to be "Coachable".  No point in spending money on a driving coach if your personality is not wired for it.

 

 

what do you mean?  Is this something a coach should do before accepting a student or a student should do signing up for coaching?  

I understand that some students are more teachable than others but in my experience teachers who claim a student isn't teachable is more than likely a result of an inflexible teaching style that doesn't mesh with the students learning style.  

In my experience the only driving students that are uncoachable are ones who already think they know it all and are taking the class because it's required for them to participate in  HPDE or to get their competition license and that doesn't apply here.

I've had to adjust my style to adapt to different student's learning styles but I've never had a willing student not gain skill as a result of instruction.  Sure some gain more than others but if someone has the desire to improve and they're working with a good instructor/coach then they will.

ClearWaterMS said:

pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:

I can only relate it to Autocross, but I spent $ on driver training and it did more than spending $$$$ on car mods.

how did you spend money on driver training?  

For autocross I recommend the evo school.  http://www.evoschool.com