BMW Z3 as a track car?

Now that some of the early Z3s are getting up there in miles, I'm starting to think about picking one up as a track day car. I've had a couple of Miatas, but never fit in them very well. I like BMW sedans, but I can never seem to find one with a stick around here that's not completely used up.

So, what do we know about Z3s as track cars? I haven't read much about them around here.

Woody, come up to noho and drive my wife's spider this spring. Or find me at limerock? We can take it down salmon kill rd!

Having never driven one, If I could have one BMW it would be a Z4-GTE. But if I could have two BMWs the other would be a M-Z3 coupe.

So long as you're putting a different seat in it, no problem that I see. The factory seat left me enough headroom, but the top of the side windows are below eye level (at least in the two that I have driven). Bolting a seat to the floor, or to a lower mount should solve that issue. Go through the cooling system, and I'm guessing they may have subframe issues like some other similar vintage BMWs, but nothing is unfixable.

Cuda wrote: Having never driven one, If I could have one BMW it would be a Z4-GTE. But if I could have two BMWs the other would be a M-Z3 coupe.

That's dope. If I did a z, it'd be a coupe. I loved the m coupe that I drove.

Like other BMW's.

Subframe issues.

They like to rip out their subframes just as much as the E36 does.

carbon wrote: Woody, come up to noho and drive my wife's spider this spring. Or find me at limerock? We can take it down salmon kill rd!

That's a generous offer. I may take you up on that at some point. Thanks.

The Z3 M Coupe is a dream car of mine as well, but the non-M convertibles are ones getting cheap. IIRC the rear suspension is pulled from the E30 and the front is related to the E36. Roll bar availability might be an issue. I am watching this thread, I think you have a good idea, Woody.

Hard Dog:

MINIzguy wrote: Like other BMW's. Subframe issues. They like to rip out their subframes just as much as the E36 does.

the z3's use the e30 rear suspension with slightly modified rear trailing arms, so they dont actually tear apart the unibody exactly like the rear of an e36, but they do have a lot more power than any e30 did and sometimes the single eyelet diff mount can overstress the center drop sheetmetal pickup in the rear. but it's pretty straightforward fab work to build a double mounted support structure back there. it's a problem that ive read about though never seen in person. otoh, my e36 tore its unibody out and that problem is quite common and a total PITA

For a track car, I'm not sure there's a lot of speed in the non-M models. One of our E stock regulars (who usually puts a beat down on us in an NA Miata) brought his wife's Z3 to one of our events and was significantly slower. It may have been a familiarity issue, but he was of the firm opinion it was a lot slower than NA Miata, at least in stock form.

the Z3 will force you to be very smooth. The semi-trailing arm rear suspension is unforgiving of ham fisted driving. treat it like a front engine 911 and you have the right idea.

This is not to say you cannot grab it by the scruff of the neck and run, but it will be a -lot- slower than driving smooth.

Best thing you can do to a Z3 (or an 318ti) is swap the rear trailing arms for that from the Z3M. Slightly wider track, much beefier, and bigger brakes. They come up on ebay on occasion

The BMW CCA Club Race crowd has pretty firmly established that an E36 sedan/coupe will pretty much always be faster than the equivalent roadster. The roadsters have shorter wheelbase and semi-trailing arm rear, which makes them trickier to handle at the limit.

All in all, they're very cool cars. But if you're going to be competing, they're probably not the best choice.

I'd be a little worried about the rear subframe because of all the hubbub surrounding the failures, but otherwise they are a solid enough platform. The four-cylinder cars are pretty much worthless for performance driving though, and you might have to get a race bucket in there pretty low to pass the broomstick test.

There is really no advantage to a Z3 roadster over the equivalent 3 series. Parts bin, flexy flier (even for a vert), that has less space in the engine bay or around the reat suspension to do service.

I wouldn't turn up my nose at a good deal, but I would prefer to use my money and effort into getting a coupe.

I am trying to figure out where people think the Z3 automatically has the same subframe failures as the sedan and coupe (which are pretty rare to begin with).

Like posted above, the Ti and Z3 use the most advanced version of the E30s rear suspension. It's "failure point" is the mounting tab on the top off the diff. The suspension itself is vastly overbuilt, heavy, and solidly connected to the car with two huge bushings

In reply to mad_machine:

You say tomato, I say tomato...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-z3-z4-forum/244843-z3-subframe-differential-mount-failure.html

yes, but that is not the same as "ripping the subframe out" that is a torn subframe (which I admit, I have never heard of before).

The good news is.. that is a relatively easy repair

I do think the subframe issues are overblown, no doubt...but Randy Forbes would not have built a business doing Z3/M Roadster subframe repairs and reinforcements if it was not an issue. It's not as common as the internet would have you believe, but it does happen and should be checked for.

The non M cars I've watched autocross are astonishingly slow and squishy. The M versions are better but from a cost standpoint I can't see them making sense over an M sedan/coupe/non Z car. If you REALLY liked them then that would be one thing, but don't see how one could build a case choosing one from scratch.

I guess I misspoke when I mentioned subframe issues.

I was really talking about the single eyelet differential mount ripping out. I've just completely merged that thought with the common E36 subframe rip.

http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/JHogan/780be43c4b_zpsd65fa342.jpg

I cannot for the life of me get this forum to accept my photobucket pictures and place them in the thread. Can get the links to hit though. I have one of these cars and was happy to find a thread come up where I could whore out some info and pictures.

I am disappoint.

My 2000 has been modified a bit, and is a blast to autocross.

Jay

MudHut wrote: http://i356.photobucket.com/albums/oo1/JHogan/780be43c4b_zpsd65fa342.jpg I cannot for the life of me get this forum to accept my photobucket pictures and place them in the thread. Can get the links to hit though. I have one of these cars and was happy to find a thread come up where I could whore out some info and pictures. I am disappoint. My 2000 has been modified a bit, and is a blast to autocross. Jay

Hint: click on the camera icon above the text box and copy the direct link into it and click on ok.

I think a 318ti with some box flares and an m3 swap would be kickass.

I saw one a while back with flares and I cant get it out of my head since.

I thank you. I believe that was the only combination I didn't try.