Desmond wrote: Option C: skip both options A and B and get the RS
Oh don't worry, we'll get to you soon enough. I see a Audi RS3, Focus RS, WRX STi cage match
Desmond wrote: Option C: skip both options A and B and get the RS
Oh don't worry, we'll get to you soon enough. I see a Audi RS3, Focus RS, WRX STi cage match
iceracer wrote:Flight Service wrote: In reply to rotard: Oh well in this price tag the Answer is the Answer, especially the new Answer. That Answers everything. Except back seats, then it just the Answer x 2Cherokees run in the 3100 lb. plus range.In reply to Swank Force One: I never realized the old Cherokees were so light. That thing is within 100 lbs of the Fiesta. Just goes to show you, that you can build light weight cars. In reply to pinchvalve: Is anti-gravity aftermarket, OEM, or special order package?
1990 4cyl 5 speed 2wd is in the 2800s
In reply to Flight Service:
I didn't look to hard at the consumables cost between the two, I would think they weren't too far apart. I guess I should have been more clear, I was just referring to costs compared to some of the larger, more powerful cars I shopped (i.e.-coyote mustangs, 370z's, c5's, etc.). Tires, brakes, etc, add up pretty fast on those.
I vote ecoboost Mustang
In reply to carczar_84:
ahhh, OK, understood.
If I could do the seat mod right now (and cash was available) I would do one of the twins because if the sales don't pick up I have a feeling that they will go away soon. I hate to see it because each time one of these niche cars die it just makes us as a group more irrelevant.
As much as I bitch about new cars, if we don't buy the ones, or give feed back on the misses we won't get them. We will all be driving 20 year old Miatas with 10 year old Acura engines...Which RULE!
I wonder if manufactures take into the ass-hat-ery that is their dealership network? No, I won't pay you "Fair Market Value Adjustment" Yes you can charge more, but remember, I can walk away. Your choice.
Plus I saw a 70k mile used FR-S for $11k on CL today
In reply to Flight Service:
I completely agree. Based on the sales numbers at the Subaru dealer I bought mine from, they aren't selling all that fast. The funny part is the sales guy kept telling me about all the markup they usually have on them (bought mine for $1400 under invoice), and then wondered why they don't sale.
I really do think they might be gone before too long, and then everyone will complain there are no lightweight 2-door coupes! 
Flight Service wrote: In reply to trucke: Yes, but did his times get slower?
He is muuuch faster!
Swank Force One wrote:Jaynen wrote: The real kicker now is you can get the Focus ST for about 17-18kUsed, right?
No I believe new still 2014 models are able to be found sub 20k, invoice on a new 2015 is 23,965 while average paid is 23,246. Especially if you get X plan or Costco pricing
Flight Service wrote: In reply to carczar_84: ahhh, OK, understood. If I could do the seat mod right now (and cash was available) I would do one of the twins because if the sales don't pick up I have a feeling that they will go away soon. I hate to see it because each time one of these niche cars die it just makes us as a group more irrelevant. As much as I bitch about new cars, if we don't buy the ones, or give feed back on the misses we won't get them. We will all be driving 20 year old Miatas with 10 year old Acura engines...Which RULE! I wonder if manufactures take into the ass-hat-ery that is their dealership network? No, I won't pay you "Fair Market Value Adjustment" Yes you can charge more, but remember, I can walk away. Your choice. Plus I saw a 70k mile used FR-S for $11k on CL today
I think used is the way to go if you are thinking FR-S/BRZ. I picked up a 2013 FR-S with 9,500 miles for $19k out the door about 4 months ago. Considering I drive less than 10k miles/year I wound up with approximately 1 year less life expectancy for $7k (or more) less than out the door for a new FR-S. Obviously there are differences in practicality but that is a different discussion.
Jaynen wrote:Swank Force One wrote:No I believe new still 2014 models are able to be found sub 20k, invoice on a new 2015 is 23,965 while average paid is 23,246. Especially if you get X plan or Costco pricingJaynen wrote: The real kicker now is you can get the Focus ST for about 17-18kUsed, right?
I don't think there are any (at least not many) left, but 6 months ago when I was looking, there were 5 or 6 dealers offering base ST1s at 18.9k plus tax, title and delivery.
I still search them on cars.com almost daily and those deals seem to have dried up about 90 days ago
I sat in both the FoST and FiST, and didn't bother asking for a test drive. They fit like economy cars. My SVT Focus feels compact, sporty, cockpit like; but its younger siblings didn't have that same feeling.
The FR-S, that felt like a sports car. The cabin is intimate without being claustrophobic, and all the controls are right where they should be. At least for 5'8" me.
yamaha wrote: The three customers of mine who used to have frisbees all own 2015 mustangs now.....most have had the same impression of "They were alright, but this is better". For the record, 2 bought GT pp's and the third bought a roush ecoboost.
Then they bought the wrong car to start with. It's like cross shopping a Miata and a Corvette. Both nice cars but completely different animals. The Mustang is large(ish) and you feel it's bulk. Just like the Camaro and Challenger. All nice cars but not nimble or light. If you want the power of a V8 pony car (or ecoboost, kinda same difference) the twins aren't for you. In fact, the twins don't really have any competition.
In reply to Feedyurhed:
Maybe, but it really depends on what one is looking for in a car. Many of us focus purely on performance numbers and track or autocross capabilities. Others may focus purely on the intangible "fun quotient". With that criteria, quite a number of cars could be cross-shopped: twins, big 3 pony cars, Focus ST & RS, WRX, etc. You buy the one that makes you smile when you get in every day.
Ian F wrote: You buy the one that makes you smile when you get in every day.
QFT
This is how and why we are in the hobby to begin with.
carczar_84 wrote: In reply to Flight Service: I completely agree. Based on the sales numbers at the Subaru dealer I bought mine from, they aren't selling all that fast. The funny part is the sales guy kept telling me about all the markup they usually have on them (bought mine for $1400 under invoice), and then wondered why they don't sale. I really do think they might be gone before too long, and then everyone will complain there are no lightweight 2-door coupes!
They seem to be doing well up here. At a local autox there were 10 twins and about 10 miatas. Considering the Miata has been about 22 years longer the twins are doing well. I keep seeing them in the wild as well, although I would say the BRZ is outselling the FRS about 10:1.
Ian F wrote: In reply to Feedyurhed: Maybe, but it really depends on what one is looking for in a car. Many of us focus purely on performance numbers and track or autocross capabilities. Others may focus purely on the intangible "fun quotient". With that criteria, quite a number of cars could be cross-shopped: twins, big 3 pony cars, Focus ST & RS, WRX, etc. You buy the one that makes you smile when you get in every day.
Yesterday I was cross shopping these: 328ix Touring manual, BRZ, IS350, 1997 E36 M3 Euro, and a Lexus GS450h. How's that for diversity?
Aspen wrote: Yesterday I was cross shopping these: 328ix Touring manual, BRZ, IS350, 1997 E36 M3 Euro, and a Lexus GS450h. How's that for diversity?
Or schizophrenia?
Great thread/discussion. I've actually been looking at these vehicles lately.
I may have to ditch my 2015 STI since I'm trying to buy a new house. I need something slightly cheaper and I've been researching the ST cars, the twins, 9th gen Si (again), Ecoboost stang, used 370z/g37, and trucks.
The ST cars I just have a hard time buying into them. I like mechanical LSD is FWD cars and I just don't like the whole torque vectoring thing. It's why I bought the STI over the WRX for a real LSD. Plus the interior is just to busy, doesn't feel sporty, and I feel like I'm in a 90s Ford.
So I kind of crossed them off my list for sub 25k new cars. Move on the the BR-Z/FR-S new they are still in my price range, used even better bang for the buck. I feel a bit snug but they drive so well even with a lackluster feel from the engine (similar feel to my wife's Foz). So they are still on my list. RWD++++
So I've owned two 9th gen Civic Sis in the recent years. I had a 2012 which Honda made a lot of mistakes on. Aside from those things the 2.4 wasn't bad and the chassis was nice. Got a redesign in 2013 and throroughly enjoyed the car at HPDEs, autoxes, etc. Plus its relatively low key. I know automotive bloggers and journ0s complain that they are behind the times in the power department but just like the BR-Z/FR-S 200hp is plenty on the track and autox. I find myself leaning more and more back to another one. It's the last model year for the 9th gen and prices are getting slashed to make room for the new 10th gen. An easy pick up for a great car in my opinion.
G37/370z great cars but hard to find a manual G37 or a clean 370z that hasn't been beaten to shreds by someone struggling to make the monthly payment.
Ecoboost mustang....hard to find a dealer that will acknowledge x-plan because the are so new or negotiate in general.
But seriously in my opinion in the same price range you can get a base WRX which is what I should have jsut gone with in the first place.
I keep teetering between Twins, used Cayman with Mega Warranty (CPO tax or aftermarket warranty), or NC Club PRHT.
Most likely, I'll wuss out and keep the Focus that I can drive and park without a care in the world.
In reply to Mitchell:
The CPO Cayman/unmolested BR-Z and everything in-between is taunting me - if my race car sells, I could easily trade the truck and come out with a free sports car. Honestly... the Cayman is a hands-down winner in this scenario. I just really like the twins and want to pretend I'd buy one new in a world filled with 10x better stuff that is 5yrs old. In the end, I won't. And I'll be driving a Cayman, E46 M3, Exige or Z-06 as punishment.
Woe is me.
the Cayman has really been haunting me lately. I know that it's such an illogical decision (for an only car), but I can't help but attempt justification of an '09-'12 non-s.
Maybe they're just too popular around here, but so far I've found one of those mythical used CPO Caymans for "twins" money within 500 miles of me: an 08 base car with 31K miles at a dealer in CT with a listed price barely under $30K. Tempting tho as it's essentially optioned they way I'd want in colors I can live with (dark grey w/ beige leather).
This video review would apply very well to this discussion.
Used MS3?
When shopping the new Focus & Fiesta ST and the MS3 a few years back, I went with the wild card and found a very nice used Mazdaspeed6 (saved myself about $12,000). The Miata and BRZ didn't have enough seats for me and they were just too slow.
I'll be taking a good hard look at the Focus RS next year!
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