92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Josh wrote: I bought my s2000 and my V70r for several thousand dollars less than the price of an FRS/BRZ. I am feeling exceptionally smart lately.I bought my MSM and my MX6 and my XJ for several thousand dollars less than the price of an S2000 + V70R. I'm feeling genius level and i have ALL the horsepower and fasts.
I bought my Mazda5, 944, and Javelin for several thousand less than the MSM/MX6/XJ combo and feel like an idiot! 
All my horsepower has no wheels or brakes!
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:Josh wrote:I bought my MSM and my MX6 and my XJ for several thousand dollars less than the price of an S2000 + V70R. I'm feeling genius level and i have ALL the horsepower and fasts.Joe Gearin wrote: An S2000 is a great car, but it isn't anywhere near as practical as the 86 twins. Have kids in babyseats?---- no S2000 Want to fit a spare set of wheels and tires for track use---- fit in 86 twins, need a trailer with S2000 Want to run to Home Depot to get home supplies?---- better shop light with the S2000 Want the car to get out of it's own way without hitting 7K RPM?----- 86 twins I have nothing but love for the S2000, but a practical car it ain't. The BRZ / FR-S twins are extremely usable, everyday machines. The S2000 is not.I bought my s2000 and my V70r for several thousand dollars less than the price of an FRS/BRZ. I am feeling exceptionally smart lately.
I both a Spitfire, Mercedes 300TD and Yugo for several thousand less then that. I have none of the horsepower or fasts.
Joe Gearin wrote: An S2000 is a great car, but it isn't anywhere near as practical as the 86 twins. Have kids in babyseats?---- no S2000 Want to fit a spare set of wheels and tires for track use---- fit in 86 twins, need a trailer with S2000 Want to run to Home Depot to get home supplies?---- better shop light with the S2000 Want the car to get out of it's own way without hitting 7K RPM?----- 86 twins I have nothing but love for the S2000, but a practical car it ain't. The BRZ / FR-S twins are extremely usable, everyday machines. The S2000 is not.
The 86 twins are only remarkable in that they exist at all. The S2000 design is 15yrs old and still a remarkable car. I would expect it to own the 86'ers on a race track. I am trying to love these new machines because I'd like to support someone trying to do something awesome... but they are just so... so... uninspired to look at*.
(*) I haven't driven one (yet) so I am trying to keep an open mind but I daily drive a 22yr old car that still spanks them on paper so I'm setting myself up for disappointment.
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
I am in a similar situation. I want to love them but if I was buying a new car I would use it everyday and the Fiat 500 Abarth just makes so much more sense for daily driving then a FRS.
Javelin wrote:92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:I bought my Mazda5, 944, and Javelin for several thousand less than the MSM/MX6/XJ combo and feel like an idiot!Josh wrote: I bought my s2000 and my V70r for several thousand dollars less than the price of an FRS/BRZ. I am feeling exceptionally smart lately.I bought my MSM and my MX6 and my XJ for several thousand dollars less than the price of an S2000 + V70R. I'm feeling genius level and i have ALL the horsepower and fasts.
I demand PROOF!!!!
In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:
93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: I am in a similar situation. I want to love them but if I was buying a new car I would use it everyday and the Fiat 500 Abarth just makes so much more sense for daily driving then a FRS.
Can't say I agree with this unless you need super high mpg. The 86 twins have more usable cargo space, are at least as comfortable, and are at least as much fun to drive. I guess if you demand fwd in the Winter I can see it, but the 86 twins are pretty darn practical.
I've driven the auto and manual, and I wouldn't consider buying the auto unless I had to deal with a stop and go commute. It isn't anything to write home about.
by the way, the GRM review is in the August issue of GRM---headed your way now.
Joe Gearin wrote: I've driven the auto and manual, and I wouldn't consider buying the auto unless I had to deal with a stop and go commute. It isn't anything to write home about.
It's too bad that they couldn't get their act together on the twin-clutch. With the traffic I face every day, I just can't bring myself to daily drive a manual anymore.
You guys crack me up with the new vs used comparisons.
This board's favorite answer is the Miata. All those bargain Miata projects wouldn't exist if people hadn't been buying them new for about $25K in today's dollars. I don't see threads on here slamming new Miata purchasers because you can get a used C5/911/S2K/whatever for the same money.
I hope the 86 twins are a huge success and we get STi versions, aftermarket support, etc.
I don't fit in a Miata... I view the BRZ as a hardtop Miata that will fit me with my 4-yr-old son in the back passenger side.
For me that just might be worth paying the new car depreciation... for others the BRZ may mean a great bang-for-the-buck lightweight RWD project a few years down the road.
NOHOME wrote: The FRS is not the immediate perfect fit that the Miata was back in 1990. There are things with the FRS that actually annoy me. As someone who keeps cars around for 10 years, I wonder how this will play out?
Hey NOHOME, what annoys you about the FRS?
Let us in on the details!
Joe Gearin wrote:93EXCivic wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: I am in a similar situation. I want to love them but if I was buying a new car I would use it everyday and the Fiat 500 Abarth just makes so much more sense for daily driving then a FRS.Can't say I agree with this unless you need super high mpg. The 86 twins have more usable cargo space, are at least as comfortable, and are at least as much fun to drive. I guess if you demand fwd in the Winter I can see it, but the 86 twins are pretty darn practical.
I just think on the road the 500 Abarth would be just as fun and I probably wouldn't take my daily driver to the track (autocross probably). The MPG is the main thing I was thinking about. Of coarse I haven't driven either so I may be wrong but I heart hot hatches for daily drivers. In a couple years once I get thru a few things I am hoping both these cars are around so I can think about buying one.
My impression of the 86 twin's rear seats was that they were only good for torturing small children.
rotard wrote: My impression of the 86 twin's rear seats was that they were only good for torturing small children.
There isn't much legroom back there, but kids in babyseats will be just fine. If the front seat occupants are under 6', two adults in back could tolerate a trip across town, but it wouldn't be super comfy. Think 3rd Gen Supra, or 944 back seat ---usable space, but not so great for grown humans. Small kids should be fine, unless the front seats are full of tall folks.
Oh the joy of being short (5' 8").
In reply to Joe Gearin:
Hey! That's not short! I'm 5'8" 
Shorties!!!!!!!
<----- 5'9" AWWWWWW yeah.
jv8 wrote: You guys crack me up with the new vs used comparisons. This board's favorite answer is the Miata. All those bargain Miata projects wouldn't exist if people hadn't been buying them new for about $25K in today's dollars. I don't see threads on here slamming new Miata purchasers because you can get a used C5/911/S2K/whatever for the same money.
I think I agree. Folks should remember that when the Miata was new, you didn't see a lot of people talking about how you could buy a used Little British Car for much less. It really was brilliant timing on Mazda's part.
Joe Gearin wrote: Hey! That's not short! I'm 5'8"
Dude, you realize you participate in a sport where short is good, right? 
I'm 5'11, BTW. Almost depressingly average.
I think the reason the miata didn't get that comparison is because british vintage generally had the reputation for falling apart and would not be something a normal consumer would mess with.
You do see that some comparison with the new MX-5s tho
friedgreencorrado wrote:Joe Gearin wrote: Hey! That's not short! I'm 5'8"Dude, you realize you participate in a sport where short is *good*, right?
Is short whats good or is it the weight that matters ;p
Winston wrote: It's too bad that they couldn't get their act together on the twin-clutch. With the traffic I face every day, I just can't bring myself to daily drive a manual anymore.
You know, I hear this all the time, and it just doesn't make sense to me at all. You HAVE to use your right leg/foot constantly when you drive, is it really that much more effort to use the left foot as well? Modern manual trans cars use hydraulic clutch actuation, so it's not like a 1950's truck where it's just you holding the pressure plate in, and you let off the pedal (neutral) when sitting still anyway. I've driven some of the worst commutes with a stick, and it's never even crossed my mind that it would be so much easier with half the feet. 
Jaynen wrote:friedgreencorrado wrote:Is short whats good or is it the weight that matters ;pJoe Gearin wrote: Hey! That's not short! I'm 5'8"Dude, you realize you participate in a sport where short is *good*, right?
Well, to us in the amateur classes it's the weight. But in the "big time", it's also packaging. Take a look at most LMP & F1 drivers.
Joe Gearin wrote: An RX-8 is a great car, but it isn't anywhere near as practical as the 86 twins. Have kids in babyseats?---- RX-8 Want to fit a spare set of wheels and tires for track use---- RX-8 Want to run to Home Depot to get home supplies?----RX-8, unless you have plywood Want the car to get out of it's own way without hitting 7K RPM?----- 86 twins I have nothing but love for the RX-8, but a practical car it ain't. The BRZ / FR-S twins are extremely usable, everyday machines. The RX-8 is too
FTFY
Eh, I couldn't fit my mountain bike in the RX8.
The auto really isn't that bad. Especially if you use the paddles when you want to have some fun. But with a stick, it's about 99% as much fun as a Miata – with more room. Interior wise, it actually reminded me of my MX3. And I can easily fit my mountain bike in that. Toyota really deserves kudos for doing what they said they were going to do – bring the passion back.
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