In reply to irish44j :
Worked for Andrew Havas in 2001....
Ok that was a long time ago
In reply to irish44j :
Worked for Andrew Havas in 2001....
Ok that was a long time ago
Knurled. said:In reply to irish44j :
Worked for Andrew Havas in 2001....
Ok that was a long time ago
lol.....rally safety rules have gotten SUBSTANTIALLY tighter since 2001 here in the US. Stupid lawyers.....
The rules are pretty good these days and have been stable for quite some time. I remember trying to hack together my first (abandoned) build around that time and it was impossible to plan anything out due to major rule changes each year.
Since I am solidly in the build camp despite my earlier post: If you decide to build your first car (fun and rewarding but not the fastest way to get on stage) remember to keep it simple. So many rally car builds start out with a good idea and end up unfinished because somewhere along the line the car just had to have 4 active diffs, 20k suspension, anti-lag and custom carbon box flares. I don't buy into the "it has to be fast out the gate cause you'll never have fun or do it again" thing. For my first stage rally. The car had a stock ej18 that made 80whp, stock rear drums (but R4 pads) and a $2.5K suspension. The only real trick we had was a KAAZ diff and 4.44 final drive that we only ran because 3 years of rallycross had determined the subie 2wd transmission was not up to the task.
HFmaxi said:I don't buy into the "it has to be fast out the gate cause you'll never have fun or do it again" thing.
I would say this should be something more like "the parts you want to keep using have to be tough as nails out of the gate" instead. Cage, shell, seat/harness mounts, skidplates- the rest is disposable and can be improved as you go.
In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
Hmm... maybe we can build an 1800ES rally car... it'd definitely be slow. 
One potential benefit of the "build" option is to allow one to build a particular car in the way you want it. For example, if I were to build the Volvo as joked above, I'd make sure the cage was legal for other race series beyond just for Rally - vintage racing, for example. Granted, I'm reasonably certain any cage built to stage rally specs would pass tech for any other series short of maybe NASCAR.
Ian F said:In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :
Hmm... maybe we can build an 1800ES rally car... it'd definitely be slow.
One potential benefit of the "build" option is to allow one to build a particular car in the way you want it. For example, if I were to build the Volvo as joked above, I'd make sure the cage was legal for other race series beyond just for Rally - vintage racing, for example. Granted, I'm reasonably certain any cage built to stage rally specs would pass tech for any other series short of maybe NASCAR.
At Sandblast this year some guys came out in a big 'ol Benz that had previously been used for Chumpcar/LeMons. They were not fast, but they had a blast and were a crowd favorite (and more importantly, they finished the whole rally when half of the high-dollar cars blew up motors or transmissions or crashed). My car is 130hp and I have a great time and we run mid-pack, even though I drive like a grandma (so says Jim). In 7 rallies I've replaced 2 shocks, and that's about it mechanically. My whole ethos has been to build the car tough, simple, and reliable with parts that I can get almost anyplace within a day (i.e. no fancy suspension, etc). And in the hands of a fast driver, my car could definitely be up there in the standings.
Kevin above is a great example. That car isn't nearly as fast as many of the cars it has run against over the years, but he and Matt have a ton of podium finishes in it because they dont' crash, don't break, and know how to wheel the thing to the max. I always enjoy watching them whip up on AWD turbo cars and other heavily-built entrants.
In reply to Ian F :
The door bar thing is something unique to rally, they need to be straight with no bends so they get loaded in tension immediately when you hit a tree sideways. Circuit/circle racing tend to have door bars that bow out into the door area, which is what you want for walls and broadsiding cars but a tree would buckle that like cracking an egg.
Well, looks like any rally plans I'm dreaming of will be pushed back at least a bit. I just bought my next rallycross car, and I'm not sure I'd want to turn it into a rally car, as I don't know if I should risk it being put in that kind of danger.
Maybe in a few more years...
eastsideTim said:Well, looks like any rally plans I'm dreaming of will be pushed back at least a bit. I just bought my next rallycross car, and I'm not sure I'd want to turn it into a rally car, as I don't know if I should risk it being put in that kind of danger.
Maybe in a few more years...
is it something super-rare/special?
Knurled. said:In reply to Ian F :
The door bar thing is something unique to rally, they need to be straight with no bends so they get loaded in tension immediately when you hit a tree sideways. Circuit/circle racing tend to have door bars that bow out into the door area, which is what you want for walls and broadsiding cars but a tree would buckle that like cracking an egg.
Interesting. I suppose a side plus to that is you can (usually?) keep the roll-up windows?
Ian F said:Knurled. said:In reply to Ian F :
The door bar thing is something unique to rally, they need to be straight with no bends so they get loaded in tension immediately when you hit a tree sideways. Circuit/circle racing tend to have door bars that bow out into the door area, which is what you want for walls and broadsiding cars but a tree would buckle that like cracking an egg.
Interesting. I suppose a side plus to that is you can (usually?) keep the roll-up windows?
Rally cars you cannot alter the structure of the front doors (i.e. you can't gut them or hollow them like a track car), so you can't generally put NASCAR-style door bars anyhow. The doors have to be complete. You can take out the window assemblies, but why would you want to? In rally, you need to roll down the windows at time controls for timecards. Some guys do the Lexan with a sliding slot, to save a few pounds, but it's nice having rolldown windows. We have lexan in our rear doors (and they are totally gutted), but front doors are more or less stock except with lighter door cards.
irish44j said:eastsideTim said:Well, looks like any rally plans I'm dreaming of will be pushed back at least a bit. I just bought my next rallycross car, and I'm not sure I'd want to turn it into a rally car, as I don't know if I should risk it being put in that kind of danger.
Maybe in a few more years...
is it something super-rare/special?
Only kind of rare, but the car has some local history.
I'll bang the build a BG chassis gong like JVAB bangs the xratty and 240 gong. Jim Pierce has rally cages for them ready to ship for less than $1500, weld in, add gussets and you're legal (with battery disconnect, seats, harnesses and spill kit of course). Chassis are stupid cheap, limited slips and suspension goodies are available and when you're ready for ignorant power down the road, the BP motor can do that as well.
In terms of flexibility and grow with you as talent and budget allows, there's no better FWD platform for the dirt.
eastsideTim said:irish44j said:eastsideTim said:Well, looks like any rally plans I'm dreaming of will be pushed back at least a bit. I just bought my next rallycross car, and I'm not sure I'd want to turn it into a rally car, as I don't know if I should risk it being put in that kind of danger.
Maybe in a few more years...
is it something super-rare/special?
Only kind of rare, but the car has some local history.
Now I am wondering whose car you bought.
In reply to Knurled. :
It's blue, I thought about buying it once.
EvanB said:In reply to Knurled. :
It's blue, I thought about buying it once.
Yup, I’m a little bummed out I missed out on it while it still had an engine and transmission, especially since I had planned on checking it out, but got stuck fixing our Lemons rally car the day before we left for the event. Although the first thing I’dve done is put a quieter exhaust on it...
In reply to eastsideTim :
You only had about 3-4 years while it was for sale with the engine...
EvanB said:In reply to eastsideTim :
You only had about 3-4 years while it was for sale with the engine...
I only knew about it years ago, and then at the shop in Dayton. Hadn’t realized it took a long time to initially sell.
In reply to eastsideTim :
But this way you get to really make it your own!
on the flip side of this is the feeling of finishing your first rally with a car that was built by you and your buddies in your garage is an immense feeling of accomplishment and pride.
Buy - but when you are looking pay careful attention to the dates on seats and belts. Those add significant amounts to the cost, when they expire.
In the US, all the sanctioning bodies don't expire seats anymore, but CARS in Canada does after 10 years.
SFI belts are only good for 2 years(?) and FIA are good for 5 years.
Look for a car that comes with some spares. I hauled away 1/2 of another car when I bought mine.
EvanB said:In reply to Knurled. :
It's blue, I thought about buying it once.
That narrows it down to a Subaru and pretty much everything ever.
I'm assuming that it's Ed Lowry's car because I haven't seen him at a rallycross in forever.
Knurled. said:EvanB said:In reply to Knurled. :
It's blue, I thought about buying it once.
That narrows it down to a Subaru and pretty much everything ever.
I'm assuming that it's Ed Lowry's car because I haven't seen him at a rallycross in forever.
Think the only car out there as loud or louder than your RX-7...
In reply to eastsideTim :
And that has about as many problems as a turbo neon...
https://athensga.craigslist.org/cto/d/mazdaspeed-3-race-rally-car/6600020662.html
Buy this, finish the front half of the cage?
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