looking at 2 car 14k gvw flatbed gooseneck trailers. 34-36 foot range.
what is the difference between a "bumper pull" model versus a gooseneck. i understand the gooseneck puts the weight directly on the axle centerline and the other hangs it out the back under the bumper. i also understand the pivot creates and easier turning radius. but if i were to find a smoking deal on a bumper pull model, is there anything that should make me not bother with it, if being pulled with a SRW 1 ton truck?
No real towing experience but, I would think that the tongue weight could be heavier with a gooseneck. That could have a significant effect on load placement.
In reply to Hal:
Tongue weight is actually significantly higher with a bumper pull as it has a fulcrum effect on the rear suspension.
Goose necks will pull nicer, they also distribute the weight better as there isn't really the effect of hitching downward pressure 4+ ft behind the axle.
tongue weight on a "5th" wheel is actually higher than a "bumper pull" as more of the trailer's weight can be placed on the tow vehicle. Usually this is done by pushing the trailer's wheels further back for stability.
A "bumper" towed trailer will only feel heavier due to the fulcrum effect you mention.
Another advantage is that a 5th wheel trailer can be easier to turn. You have less length behind the trailer's wheels and you can pivot the tow vehicle to 90 degrees or more from the trailer centerline (not recommended though)
Fifth wheel is a term generally used with pin and plate hitches and gooseneck is generally for the ball in the bed.
The biggest advantage for the bed coupler over the bumper, besides the 800-2500# higher allowable tongue weight is that the front of the truck doesn't get "light" from the trailer. That translates to much, much less stressful towing.
I thought I wanted a 5th wheel toy hauler but wife talked me out of it and I'm glad see did. several times we have the race car in the trailer and take the two motorcycles in the bed of the truck. At 58 ft bumper to bumper its a bit long but never had a problem yet
44Dwarf wrote: I thought I wanted a 5th wheel toy hauler but wife talked me out of it and I'm glad see did. several times we have the race car in the trailer and take the two motorcycles in the bed of the truck. At 58 ft bumper to bumper its a bit long but never had a problem yet
that's one of my current hangups. right now i'm driving an avalanche, and i love my covered bed. if i get a trailer that hooks up in the bed, i lose the ability to get a hard locking bed cover when i get new truck.
You could get one of the hard roll up covers. They retract like a roll top desk. Open it up for towing, close and lock otherwise. I have several friends that used to use fiberglass covers and all have gone to retractables.
Goosenecks will definitely put more weight on the truck (often around 25 - 35%, rather than 10 - 15%). That generally leads to using a truck that has a higher payload capacity. This means you need at least a 3/4 ton truck, half tons and goosenecks do not go together in 99% of all cases (due to insufficient payload capacity to comfortably handle the pin weight of the trailer).
Goosnecks pull much better though, and it's more maneuverable in parking lots, as your maximum truck to trailer angle is much, much higher.
However, if you want to pull a gooseneck, a truck with an 8ft bed is basically required. If you have a shorter bed, many goosneck trailers will hit the cab if you turn too tightly (shape of the trailer determines whether this is an issue). This means you can never put a gooseneck hitch in an Avlanche, as the hitch will be way too close to the cab (and those plastic angled pieces). Ideal hitch placement is just slightly (2 - 4 inches) forward of the rear axle.
You can't pull a gooseneck or fifth wheel with an Avalanche.
You also can't tow a 2 car bumper pull trailer with an Avalanche. You will be at about double it's towing capacity when loaded.
A 1 ton truck, however, will tow either. Most people who tow for a living would rather tow a fifth wheel- more stable. Most people who tow ocassionally would rather have a bumper pull- more versatile.
A 14K pound trailer is pretty heavy for most trucks. A new F-350 is rated for about 13,000 lbs towing capacity. A 14K trailer puts you pretty deep into F-450 range, and probably tips the scales high enough to require a CDL.
GVRW is the gross COMBINED weight for the entire rig (truck+ trailer+ load+ passengers+ luggage+ tools+ fuel, etc.).
Yeah the Avalanche owners manual has NO GOOSENECK OR FIFTH WHEEL TRAILERS really bold. At some point in the next half year will be stepping up to a 1 ton crew cab short bed. Ive got a very specific combo in mind to stay under CDL's 26001+ combined gvwr rule for trailers over 10k. 14000 trailer plus 11700 truck is under. Add long bed and gvwr goes over 12000, pisses off the DOT gods, and they want a CDL.
The short bed truck won't work for a 5th wheel box (race trailer, camper, etc). Corners will hit the truck cab.
Might work for a gooseneck with a narrow hitch.
Consider the dually for a trailer that big. It will tow a lot better.
Yeah, for 14k lbs, a SRW 1 ton is the minimum, a dually would be good if you're going to see much highway time with the rig.
As far as trucks that'll pull 13k, an F-350 or similar should do it if optioned right. IIRC, the early 2000s ones were rated somewhere in the 15 - 17k range, so I'd be surprised if you can't get over 13k with a new one.
SVreX wrote: The short bed truck won't work for a 5th wheel box (race trailer, camper, etc). Corners will hit the truck cab.
Sure it will. Google "5th wheel slider hitch".
the whole reason behind not going dually is the CDL. I'm not going to go through the pain in the ass of getting a CDL for me pulling a couple cars around for personal use. I know that if i load up 2 vehicles and head to gainesville in september that a crew cab dually with a 2 car trailer and 2 race prepped vehicles(no matter how cheap they are) is going to get popped by someone's highway patrol.
CDL laws said: Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Any trailer that can carry 2 cars is 14K or more GVWR. That says right there, by rule of the law, that the truck pulling it must have 12K or less GVWR to avoid having a CDL. It sounds as if the rules are written assuming that anyone in a position to have more than that is running for business purposes, not a hobbyist, and that the rules were written way back when pickups weren't in the middle of the diesel torque/payload & towing capacity wars like they are now. But, it's the rules, and I intend to play by them and not get busted. I know there are lemons teams pulling 3 car wedges with dually trucks and no CDL's, but I'm not about to run afoul of johnny law.
Open gooseneck trailers that I'm looking at are constructed with the top of the hitch in a triangle, so as to clear the cab. Not looking to pull an enclosed trailer. The manufacturers offer gooseneck prep packages and hitches on shortbed trucks.
If you guys know some way i could get a new crew cab dually and a 2 car trailer and not get a CDL I'm all ears. DRW trucks are cheaper than SRW ones, and crew cab short bed diesel 1 tons are relatively hard to find in the lower optioned models. I've seen a couple manufacturers willing to downrate the 14k trailers to 9990, but that sounds like a really good way to get pulled over, have officer say "that tag is BS you're running a pair of 7k 8 lug axles, you are 14k on trailer" and bust you.
The cummins 3500 SRW crew cab short bed auto is rated over 17k towing. My avalanche is rated 8k, and that's REALLY optimistic on GM's part. I had a full 8k behind it and it struggled on flat land, so not sure how they come to those numbers. Realistically, I'm never going to have a full 14k behind a truck unless I start racing suburbans or something.
GVWR of any new ram 3500 crew cab dually is 14,000. I'm not finding any 12K trailers for pulling 2 vehicles.
Check your state on cdl needs. In Indiana you can drive any thing with a regular licence as long it is for personal use. I had a f700 with air breaks no special licence. I never took it out of state so I am not sure on those rules. I just picked up a c7500.
In reply to stan_d:
It gets complicated with towing radius. Like, our company truck, if I borrowed it for use past 150miles, would qualify as "commercial" for obscure reasons important only to the kind of tinpot who would cite somebody for that sort of thing.
Fortunately the truck is prvately owned and isn't company owned.
patgizz wrote: I've seen a couple manufacturers willing to downrate the 14k trailers to 9990, but that sounds like a really good way to get pulled over, have officer say "that tag is BS you're running a pair of 7k 8 lug axles, you are 14k on trailer" and bust you.
On what grounds would they be able to say the rating is BS? If it's a legitimate manufacturers tag and not something forged then the officer would have no say in the matter.
If the manufacturer is conservative and overbuilds it doesn't mean they have to rate it higher.
Just because the axles handle 14k, it doesn't mean the rest of the trailer is able to handle it.
Isn't cdl requirement in most states based on actual weight you're running, not rated weight?
Even if it's rated weight, I agree that they couldn't argue with a manufacturer tag. Unless you WERE loaded to 14k, but that would have otherwise consequences too.
Dually and 5th wheel or gooseneck.
Stability Stability Stability Stability Stability Stability
Very stressful to go down the road with something you have to fight with. Also you're not going to get 2 cars on a tow behind unless they are VeeWee's and you will need a load equalizing hitch which has it's own shortcomings.
In reply to stan_d:
Thats it? We've surpassed 80k lbs with a pickup truck....
i'll hold back comments on literacy or lack of reading comprehension
does anyone have real world experience with one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/34-2-car-hauler-equipment-utility-trailer-7k-axles-with-brakes-14000-GVWR-NEW-/161945043170?hash=item25b4ad40e2:g:jlQAAOSwpDdVQmlC
or one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/34-car-hauler-equipment-utility-trailer-2-3-wood-deck-gooseneck-I-beam-Frame-NEW-/161339463693?hash=item259094d80d:g:GiQAAOSwqu9VIscO
the truck i'm looking at comes with a receiver hitch rated at 1800 tongue weight/18000 trailer weight according to the towing charts from the manufacturer, and the truck itself is rated for 17,200 trailer weight. i don't have a problem with weight distribution hitches, i have one for my enclosed car trailer with the half ton avalanche.
biggest statement of the day, i can not stress this enough, every dually in the ram lineup(or ford or gm for that matter) is over 13,000 GVWR. all diesel ram dually trucks are 14. 14k+14K=28K=CDL. SRW truck 11.7K+14K=25.7K=UNDER CDL.
reason for wanting new truck is simple. 100k miles worth of warranty and theoretical pain free miles, covered by MFG. towing to $2016 and it comes home with a problem? FCA fixes it. This year i came home from the challenge with a roadside disassembled 4 wheel drive system, a failed rear pinion bearing and metal in my rear diff oil, and a mystery vibration, that has cost me an arm and half a leg and it's still vibrating.
In reply to patgizz:
The DOT and the State Patrol do not ticket based on rated weights. They ticket based on actual weights (which is why there are weigh stations and State Patrol have portable scales in their trunk).
The 13,000 GVWR of the dually is irrelevant as it relates to needing a CDL, as long as your actual combined weight does not exceed 26,000.
You can tow a 19,000 rated trailer behind a 13,000 rated truck with no CDL, as long as your actual weight does not exceed 26,000 total (and your payload weights, axle weights, etc are within the ratings).
Consider a dually.
Are you certain Paul? You've been around the block a few more times than me and I value your input. To me the law goes off ratings and not actual weight. I couldnt exceed 26k with dually, trailer, and a couple big block 4x4 suburbans on it let alone the cars i intend to pull. I found this flow chart, and when followed with the gvwr of a dually(14k) it points to cdl.
www.ineda.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Upgrading-Your-Tow-Vehicle-or-Trailer-.pdf
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