Buy American - After Bailout

If there was a bailout for GM, Ford, and/or Chrysler, afterwards, would you be sure to buy American and encourage others to buy American also?

If you were buying new today (before bailout), would you consider the American models?

I exclusively bought American, except for a brief flirtation with VW in college, until last year. Then, I bought a Mazdaspeed3. The domestics weren't making anything I wanted. I'd love to compare domestic and foreign again to give them the opportunity to get my business. The 'Stang is hot. That's about the only car I'd consider. Then I think about gas mileage and what I save driving a turbo 4 instead of a V8.

No I still wouldn't buy American. Or let's say I wouldn't give them preferential treatment.

At the moment I can't find an American model to compare to anything foreign that I would be in the market to buy. Build quality and warranty issues put American at the bottom of my list.

i won't buy a new car... so no matter what I buy i'm helping out our economy by passing the bucks along to someone who works here ;-)

that being said... i bought 2 'merican cars this year... right after i got rid of 2 others... i sure wouldn't mind buying another... a p71 specifically... but like i said... they won't be new...

I grew up in Detroit; my father is a retired automotive engineer, my uncle was a lifetime GM yes-man, my father-in-law a Chrysler retiree.

The first new car I ever bought with my own hard-earned cash: a 1990 Honda CRX Si. Why? The domestics didn't make anything a guy like me wanted.

Fast forward 18 years...

I own 2 Mazda Miatas (and have owned a total of 5). I have a BMW 320i from '83 (soon to be a Lemons racer). The wife drives a PT Cruiser with an intake & Borla (appeases her dad!). I also tow my racecar with a Ford Expedition.

I'm not against domestics at all; the PT & the Ford are great vehicles for what they are. But I'm smart enough to make purchases based on history & solid judgement. I choose based upon my own economy, not the government's.

We bought a new Solstice GXP for my wife a couple of years ago. We looked at the Boxster, 350z vert, and a few others and my wife chose the GXP. I've really been impressed by it. Very reliable, fast, and the handling is great.

Edit: I was against buying new until my wife bought a used Audi off Ebay. After the pain of working on that car I told her it needed to go and she had to have something with a warranty. I needed to work on my projects, not her Audi. The Solstice came with a 5 year 100k drivetrain warranty and we had that extended to 7 years and the bumper to burmper also extended. It is so nice to know that warranty is there and my garage time is spent working on rusty 30 year old vehicles that just want to punish me.

I don't believe I would either due to the aforementioned build quality and warranty issues. I also am not overly crazy about rewarding the poor management practices of the companies (HUMMERs, Commanders etc) or the UAW's heavy handed arm twisting tactics. When I see Honda, Nissan, BMW, Subaru and Toyota operating US plants with happy employees and producing quality products at lower cost than the Detroit based companies, it pains me to think of rewarding the Big 3 and the UAW just because they build 'American cars'.

I drive an American car (actually conceived, designed, manufactured, and assembled here), but I refuse to buy a new Saturn, because they're not Saturns anymore, they're GM junk. So when this S-series dies, I'll either find a less-used one, or buy an import.

It's a shame that these companies employ SO many people, because otherwise, I'd say let them burn. The Big 3 haven't manufactured anything remotely interesting since the 70s, and only a select few vehicles even worth a damn, reliability-wise.

But typical American corporate thinking, just keep doing what we're doing, screw the future, big cars will always rule. Maybe if they had been working on decent cars and new technology rather than trucks, SUVs, and vehicles that get single-digit fuel economy they wouldn't be so screwed right now...

For me, the only way that I could likely get myself to buy a traditionally American car would be if I felt guilted into it which has me thinking.... If the gov't bails out these guys I will basically have a new interest (or forced interest) in their success. Should I then by one of their products?

If I were buying a car this week, pre-bailout, would I feel bad about buying something else? Would that be like placing another nail in their coffin?

Personally, I buy used but typically keep my wife in new cars. Two years ago she bought a Nissan Versa. It has been good for her and served us well.

Right now there are only two import dealers locally, Nissan and Toyota/Scion and all of the american companies . If I were to go looking for a new car, I would be hard pressed to find something I like. Solstice or Scion TC maybe. The Fiesta looks interesting. Why don't companies build something that looks like a car instead of a space ship ?

If the VIN starts with a 1, it's American enough for me. If I had the money to buy new, it would probly go into a Ford before either of the other two. This would be if I had passed over about 5 import models on the way.

Twin_Cam wrote: I drive an American car (actually conceived, designed, manufactured, and assembled here), but I refuse to buy a new Saturn, because they're not Saturns anymore, they're GM junk. So when this S-series dies, I'll either find a less-used one, or buy an import. It's a shame that these companies employ SO many people, because otherwise, I'd say let them burn. The Big 3 haven't manufactured anything remotely interesting since the 70s, and only a select few vehicles even worth a damn, reliability-wise. But typical American corporate thinking, just keep doing what we're doing, screw the future, big cars will always rule. Maybe if they had been working on decent cars and new technology rather than trucks, SUVs, and vehicles that get single-digit fuel economy they wouldn't be so screwed right now...

You're on a motorsports forum and don't think anything remotely interesting has come out of the big 3 since the 70s? What the hell do you find interesting?

Jensenman wrote: I don't believe I would either due to the aforementioned build quality and warranty issues. I also am not overly crazy about rewarding the poor management practices of the companies (HUMMERs, Commanders etc) or the UAW's heavy handed arm twisting tactics. When I see Honda, Nissan, BMW, Subaru and Toyota operating US plants with happy employees and producing quality products at lower cost than the Detroit based companies, it pains me to think of rewarding the Big 3 and the UAW just because they build 'American cars'.

+1 on all of this

In a year or two, when my son starts driving, we'll be looking for something new (not for him). Probably a well-optioned compact hatchback. Something like a MINI or Mazda3. Saturn Astra is the only one that comes to mind from the big-3. Maybe Ford will wise up and bring over the euro Focus, or that new Fiesta they've had at the car shows.

My current family car is a 2002 Volvo V70T5. Do any of the Big-3 make anything comparable? And no, I don't want an SUV or mini-van.

My other car is a 97 Miata. I bought it used. At the time it was built, I'm pretty sure it was the only option for a small, affordable RWD sports car. How many years did it take GM to start building something to compete? 15?

The Solstice/Sky seems to be a popular choice here... and I have to say it is the only new American car I even think about as desirable (in my price range... the Ford GT was the other :) )

Define American car. My old Mitsubishi-built in America, by Americans. My dads Ford-Mexico, by Mexicans. I too prefer to drive older cars but keep Mrs. Mini in a new car. The last was an '05 Jetta, 4 year bumper to bumper.As a plus, she was able to sell the Jetta for about $3200 less than what she paid for it, 3 1/2 years later. Now she's looking for another new car, and considering a Nissan Versa, Mazda 3, or another VW. The last new "American" was a '98 Windstar, that went through two transmissions, a wiper motor, head gaskets, various electrical gremlins and both rear axle bearings in less than 90K miles(4 years). Just a fluke? No. I work too hard not to get what I think is good value for my money.

I can't link a lot of stuff here at work unfortunately and I saw an interesting online article a while back about just why we haven't seen a lot of the Euro models like the Ka. The gist of it: these cars pass emissions and safety standards everywhere but the US. The European standards are accepted pretty much worldwide. However, the NHTSA won't change US standards to meet the Euro versions and the Europeans won't change their standards to meet ours. It's also why Honda took so long to bring the Fit over.

On one hand... yes, I'd take the U.S. Economy into account when choosing a new vehicle. On the other hand, however, I'm too picky with the car I'm going to be owning and driving to have the place that it was designed and manufactured really be a factor.

Jensenman said:I don't believe I would either due to the aforementioned build quality and warranty issues. I also am not overly crazy about rewarding the poor management practices of the companies (HUMMERs, Commanders etc) or the UAW's heavy handed arm twisting tactics. When I see Honda, Nissan, BMW, Subaru and Toyota operating US plants with happy employees and producing quality products at lower cost than the Detroit based companies, it pains me to think of rewarding the Big 3 and the UAW just because they build 'American cars'.

Jensenman you hit the nail on the head.

By rewarding bad management with a bailout we are virtually garenting that they will be back in a couple of years looking for a handout again...

johnhammer wrote: I choose based upon my own economy, not the government's.

That's quoteworthy. I think we are witnessing the birth of the Corporate Wellfare State.

I bailout is bad for everybody. It props up companies that are failing on their own merits, virtually guarantees that they will make worse cars, not better, and the competition won't need to work as hard.

The Big 3 will never succeed by selling good cars: they have to sell the BEST cars. They've had 3 decades to catch up and haven't. What's going to change now?

The reason that i posed the questions is that I too belive that a bail out will not solve the pain but only delay the pain. Either way, the pain is coming!

To me the real question is, "How do we ease the pain and its effects on the economy?"

We have a bunch of American cars. More now, in fact, than I may have ever had before. Not all new, to be sure, but in our fleet only the Volvo has a foreign name.

The TrailBlazer was actually constructed in the United States, as was the '93 Roadmaster woodie war wagon.

The GTO, of course, comes from Australia. The Crown Vic comes from Canada.

Right now, there aren't many new cars that really pluck at my heart, but there are some Americans in the mix. I love the new (and the old) CTS-V. My wife would love to replace her TrailBlazer with a TrailBlazer SS. I really like the new turbo Cobalt SS sedan. I was close to swapping the GTO for a Charger SRT8.

I think I am done with the sophisticated and expensive euro cars. I am just not interested in the new Bimmers or P-Cars. The upcoming 370Z looks cool, but I could buy a used C6 or C5 Z06 for less than a new Z. The new M3 doesn't really tempt me. I'd rather have the G8 GXP. My wife does love the Cayenne GTS, but I think if the TrailBlazer SS was available with a manual trans like the GTS she wouldn't think twice about about the pepper anymore.

Anyway, all our cars are out of warranty now, and all of them have been holding up great. I used to be snobby and anti-'Merican but I have grown up and realized that they can be very very good cars.

Edit: I realized when I clicked the button that I didn't actually directly answer the question. Yes, I would buy either a pre- or post-bailout American car.

The newest Cobalt SS is something I would consider if I were in the market for a new car. Other than that, there are many American cars that I like, but would not be realistic considerations if I were buying new.

jrw1621 wrote: To me the real question is, "How do we ease the pain and its effects on the economy?"

The very rich are probably set.

The very poor already have nothing to lose.

"Regular" middle class folks that have tangible skills and a good work ethic will take a hit to their standard of living, but will survive.

The people that will hurt the most are the upper-middle-class. The folks that buy new cars every 18 months, amass oceans of debt, have to live in $250k+ McMansions, gotta have their Starbucks and probably don't mow their own lawn are going to hurt. They have enjoyed a decade of opulence, floated on credit and irresponsble consumption.

The basic problem (other than irresponsible consumption) is that our government seems to think it is possible to spend away a recession. Smarter people than me are working on it, but from what I remember from college Economics, I don't believe this to be possible. I think a 2-month blackout of CNN, MSNBC and Fox News would go further towards stimulating the economy than the bailout.

Back on topic though...if the Big 3 haven't been successful during times 'o plenty, then they will not (should not) survive through a major recession. Give them money and they will spend it into oblivion in no time. Put it under government oversight? Really? Come on. I can see the gov't coming in and teaching the management Kaizen and having all those UAW folks doing their calisthenics every morning before their shift begins.

There isn't a quick fix. I think we need to rip the band-aid off and let the market do its thing. Within 2 hours of where I live, I have Denso, Toyotetsu, TRW, Nissan and now VW is building a billion dollar plant. These folks are producing cars, trucks and components thereof in my backyard. Nippondenso and Nissan are expanding and the VW plant is all-new. That is a lot of economic growth in my state that is a direct result of the success of the 'imports.'

the overseas cars ARE coming. the fiesta will be here as a 2010 model next year. also next year, i believe that canada's safety standards will come in line with the US, so that companies can make cars to be sold in both the US and Canada without having to change anything but the gauge cluster. GM has already made their suburbans so that they meet both US and canadian regs already.

when i was looking for a new/used car last year, i test drove a mustang, but it didn't have the pep that the ms3 and wrx had, despite having more hp. it felt very sluggish and heavy, which it kinda is. now, if ford brought over even a more recent focus rather than the reskinned old-dog crap they're selling now, although thats what it appears mazda is doing with the new 3, and people are already salivating for the release of that one. go figure.