Can an F-150 Lightning really road trip?

93gsxturbo said:

Keith Tanner said:

deaconblue said:

Now how much driving range can you add to the Lightning at a Tesla supercharge in that same 10 minute period, if all the conditions are right?

But thinking of a fuel stop as a standalone thing is what you need to change. The thing to do is to charge the vehicle when you're not driving it. Gonna stop for lunch? That's when you plug in the truck. Charging overnight but you don't have enough power to run the stove and the charger? Plug in the truck before you go to bed and you're not cooking, it'll be full in the morning - and that's roughly 230 miles of range, or about 4 hours of driving at 50 mph.

 

This is where fantasy begins and reality ends, unfortunately.

-Reality means eating at a chain by the freeway instead of at the local mom and pop because that is where the EV chargers are.

-Reality means carrying a 100' 240V 30A extension cord (that costs a few pesos to say the least) plus a 240V wall charger and hoping like hell the stove at your rental cabin isn't gas...or hardwired....or a built in....  And even then you gotta hope that you have the right plug on the end of the cord or enough knowledge and confidence to swap plugs.  Plus you gotta stay parked for 8-10 hours.

Daily driver in a populated area, sure.  

Road tripper?  Not so sure.  

Took a 1900 mile round trip from Baltimore to Daytona Beach to watch the Daytona 500. Possibly took LESS time than it would have in my previous BMW, as stopping every 3 1/2 hours for a half hour or so kept me rested and refreshed, while in my BMW on the same trip, by the 10 hour mark at night it was time to stop and sleep a bit so that a momentary blink didn't turn into a looong moment of closed eyes.

But here's the thing, even for this board: the average person drives 30-40 miles a day commuting and errand running. a 120v outlet can replenish that much overnight at home without any special charging stations. And 80% of drivers take 1 road trip over 300 miles per year, according to AAA. And even among the remaining 20%, only a small amount go over 500 miles more than 5 times a year. Even in rural areas, mot folks don't live more than 100 miles from where they work or usually spend time, and pretty much all of them have electricity at home these days (it's not 1950 Appalachia anymore). A car with 250-300 miles nominal range could easily work for them, too. And it's easy to stop at mom-and pop eateries, as you can still get to them easily. I mean if you're going to stop for an hour or two at a little diner somewhere, then you're obviously not in a rush, and you can find a fast charger to top off elsewhere. or are you trying to do a Cannonball Run everywhere you go EXCEPT when you stop to eat and use up valuable traveling time?

Chris_V said:

Spearfishin said:

Another, since we're playing ask the guy with the electric truck: my '21 has F150 has at least 25 miles of range after it says "0 miles to empty". (Confirmed, unfortunately with someone else behind the wheel when I set them up for failure after asking them to help me pick up another bad decision purchase and we immediately hopped on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, which is 22 miles long, with no option for fuel or U-turn.)

When it says you have 300 miles in the Lightning (or whatever the number is), when it gets to zero, is that legitimately it? Or said another way, when I fill my truck up, the computer says "395 miles to empty" but really that's like 410+, in a pinch. What's the "in a pinch" situation at the small end of the mileage range on a Lightning, or EV's more broadly?

Why do people insist on running ANY vehicle down to it's last drop of fuel or last electron? It's STUPID is what it is. In 4 years of daily driving EVs and road tripping, I've NEVER come CLOSE to running out of juice.

I mean, why is your gas powered vehicle that close to empty that you get into situations where you might run out? Why do you avoid going to the gas station that is supposedly so simple and fast, to use? Maybe because going to the gas station all the time sucks? And the fact that you HAVE to go somewhere ELSE to put gas in it, so you avoid going there until you absolutely have to...

Sometimes it seems like the ICE-OR-DIE folks will look for ANY edge case in driving to say not only won't they work for you, but for anyone.

I had a reservation for a Lightning, am waiting on my brother-in-law to decide his Model S isn't worth as much as he thinks it is so I can buy it, and have tried twice to get the wife to test drive a new Hyundai EV. I'm hardly ICE or nothing. I guess I'm just bad at adulting. I could explain the above situation further, but the short version is "I forgot, and got excited about buying another car".

(Edit to soften tone...I had a E36 M3ty day at work, not a reason for me to be rude on the internet.) I've never personally owned an EV, though I want to/intend to. But I guess I'm on the forgetful/busy end of things and take comfort in knowing there's a little cushion below "E". Does, or does not, that cushion exist in an EV, as a rule?

So as a counter point:

My daily needs gas every 3 weeks; it has a 375 mile range. It takes 5-7 minutes to fill it up. It gets parked driveway. With a EV I would likely spend 5-7 minutes putting the cord away during that 3 week interval.

On road trips we seldom stop an hour for lunch. This is especially so when towing to a race track. My tow van is a gas sucking hog but it holds 32 gallons of gas.......still only a 15 minute stop.......I eat a sandwich while it's filling up.

If you loathe gas stations EVs are great.......other than that I still don't see them as better.  For people to embrace them they need to be better than ICE vehicles.

With all that said the do the job as everyday cars just fine.

Chris_V said:

Why do people insist on running ANY vehicle down to it's last drop of fuel or last electron? It's STUPID is what it is. In 4 years of daily driving EVs and road tripping, I've NEVER come CLOSE to running out of juice.

Why does everyone in my house (well, other than me, at least) always have a phone, laptop, tablet, etc that has < 10% battery charge remaining?  Because they all have ADHD and they forgot to plug them in before they went to bed.  That's a real thing.

Not that this would directly apply to the F150 EV in question in FLA, but I live in the Great Lakes region, you need to keep in mind is that January and February are darn cold.  So if you didn't stop on the way home for a charge or plug in over night, you may have a rude awakening in the morning.  This past winter, folks in Chicago found out that once you plug your EV into a charger in the dead of winter in the morning, it could take up to 45 minutes to "condition" the batteries (warm them up) prior to them being able to take a charge - apparently they did read the owners manual either.  But last time I checked, I don't need to warm up my gas tank before pumping in 5, 10 or 20 gallons of fuel in the dead of winter.

Same can be said in say Phoenix in July and August, this time the batteries need to be cool off the on say a 116 degree day before they can take a charge.

One other issue is a lost of range with an EV from just being parked in the driveway for a week or so.  Again something that you typically don't have to deal with when own of an ICE powered vehicle.

Just saying, right now the EVs that are out there including the F150 EV may not be "ready for prime time" for all the potential customers in all locations.

My neighbor just stopped by with a new Lightning and let me have a go. I have to say, it's a lovely driving experience. I can see why EV people are such evangelists. That silent wave of torque is very addictive, as is the almost total lack of NVH. It helps that a modern F-150 is such a nice place to spend time, too, of course.

Clearly the EV truck works for Tom. As he pointed out with a little planning it's not an issue for a lot of trips.

Naturally I am still not sold on them.

deaconblue said:

Not that this would directly apply to the F150 EV in question in FLA, but I live in the Great Lakes region, you need to keep in mind is that January and February are darn cold.  So if you didn't stop on the way home for a charge or plug in over night, you may have a rude awakening in the morning.  This past winter, folks in Chicago found out that once you plug your EV into a charger in the dead of winter in the morning, it could take up to 45 minutes to "condition" the batteries (warm them up) prior to them being able to take a charge - apparently they did read the owners manual either.  But last time I checked, I don't need to warm up my gas tank before pumping in 5, 10 or 20 gallons of fuel in the dead of winter.

Same can be said in say Phoenix in July and August, this time the batteries need to be cool off the on say a 116 degree day before they can take a charge.

One other issue is a lost of range with an EV from just being parked in the driveway for a week or so.  Again something that you typically don't have to deal with when own of an ICE powered vehicle.

Just saying, right now the EVs that are out there including the F150 EV may not be "ready for prime time" for all the potential customers in all locations.

I live in the Great Lakes region.  My household is EV only currently.  I have over 120k miles EV only, and cold weather charging, or charging in general, hasn't been a challenge of ownership despite traveling all over the Great Lakes states in all weather conditions.  The current news paradigm of using headlines to generate clicks drives some of these stories and I understand how that impacts the conversations we have.  Here is why I am responding. The reason I have two EVs, is that my ownership experience with my first EV led me to consider EVs for the purchase of my wife's latest SUV.  My first experience was so positive from a cost perspective, but more importantly, an enjoyment of ownership perspective, that we included EVs in the search for my wife's next vehicle.  
 

 I purchased my first EV in 2019, NEW for the first time for me.  Very thorough vehicle expense records led to very elementary math that indicated significant savings despite traveling over 5 Great Lakes states and driving 25-30k per year.  I went from a Lexus to an EV and saved significantly every month.  TLDR, and I put 100k on an EV with no costs other than charging, wipers and tires.  My wife enjoyed the rides in my EV and complained that her Hemi and 8 speed combo would lag significantly when asked to accelerate compared to my EV.  She now thoroughly enjoys the 640+HP she has and the lack of any transmission to delay her requests for acceleration.  We are both happy to fill up at home, eliminating a honey do for me as she always hated fueling her vehicle, and lowering our costs.  

On a somewhat related note, we had a '24 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xe rental in FLA this past January.  Hated it at first, then figured out how it worked, which driving mode to select and how much regenerative braking I wanted.  On a fully charged battery (only 36 mile range) and in full electric mode it was a pretty impressive 5500 lbs "golf cart" for getting around on the island.  We hated the pedestrian warning "music" it played below 20 MPH.  In Sport mode flooring the throttle added 175 lbs-ft of electric motor instant torque like a shot of nitrous to the 2.0L turbo - fun!  Getting back to the airport via the fully recharged battery also allowed buying gas at "normal" prices far enough away from the airport, while still turning in the rental with a full tank of gas.

Sorry for not replying more here--I'm on a camping trip in the woods, and didn't realize this was posting while I'm out.

I figure I should mention that I'm not proposing that any car is the one-size-fits-all solution to every person's situation. And I think I've been pretty frank about the limitations of this technology.

But I've also been sharing it's advantages, as clearly I believe it has some since I spent my own money to buy one of these things after trying one for a week.

This isn't directly in GRM's wheelhouse, but I figure more information about quickly changing technology, from people like us instead of people like the EV nuts or the "NO EVS EVER!!!" media outlets, may be helpful.

Draw your own conclusions but hopefully at least a few of you find this stuff helpful. I'll check in when I can over the next few days. 

In reply to Tom Suddard :

Real world experiences are worth posting........you should keep updating us on the truck.

Just would like to add that most hotels I’ve run across lately around the west have free charging stations. But definitely call ahead to make sure. 

I need to do some more research. My work is 29 miles each way. They have chargers at work. I have a charger at home.  This leaves my camping and mountianbike trips.  Hmmm.  

I want to know when EV towing will be viable. Which actually means:  When will pull through charging spots become a thing? That's my hang up on an EV truck.

Keith Tanner said:

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

FYI, my wife's company uses a couple of Lightnings for parts and sample running all over Western Colorado. Definitely not suburbia.

You guys are literally off I-70 and unless you're going north, looks like there's plenty of infrastructure in booming west CO. I was just out there doing all of the national parks, seemed like plenty of places to charge EVs everywhere I went. 

Cactus said:

I want to know when EV towing will be viable. Which actually means:  When will pull through charging spots become a thing? That's my hang up on an EV truck.

It's more than just pull through charging that's needed to make EV towing viable, at least if you're talking about things like enclosed race car trailers.

It's been interesting watching how quickly my wife has become completely EV-pilled since getting her Ioniq 5 a month ago. She went from having mild to moderate range anxiety along with internalizing all of the other common societal EV objections to now totally gaming the sytem and seeing if she can go an entire week between charges so she can hit the nearby WalMart Electrify America station to take advantage of the free EA charging that came with the Hyundai. 

And you say "Well now she has to go to WalMart" to which I'd respond that on her first visit to the WalMart chargers, which are conveniently positioned right outside the garden center, she discovered that their garden center prices were considerably better than the one's she'd been paying at the other big box retailer she was buying from at least once a week. And she goes through a LOT of pine straw and top soil. So she turned a trip she has to make regularly anyway into a combo trip that also nets probably 80%+ of her total fuel usage for free.

So, yeah, the non-Tesla charging infrastructure isn't nearly as advanced or reliable as the gasoline infrastructure is at the moment, but we also don't do it enough justice by trying to base its use case on gasoline-based frames of reference. 

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

Range extender hybrids like the new ramcharger are probably gonna be the only really viable option for that sort of thing in the immediate future. Really want one but I just know they're gonna be 80k 

I like the idea of an EV, although we aren't buying a new car anytime soon. So it's a moot point for us. 

The only thing I don't understand is why the people who have EV's seem so intent on convincing others to get one. 

If they can make one that will tow 5000lbs with a 300 mile range it will be tough to ignore.

z31maniac said:

The only thing I don't understand is why the people who have EV's seem so intent on convincing others to get one. 

Most likely it's genuine. They're super pleased with the decision and they think others would benefit. 

OHSCrifle said:

z31maniac said:

The only thing I don't understand is why the people who have EV's seem so intent on convincing others to get one. 

Most likely it's genuine. They're super pleased with the decision and they think others would benefit. 

And more folks driving EVs would help to push expansion & improvement of the charging network.

Personally, I'm still waiting for a viable van option.  The Buzz is too small. The E-Transit doesn't have enough range (and annoyingly isn't offered with the high-roof).

My first experience with an EV was last summer in Norway. We rented an electric Volvo (C40 I think) that was much cheaper than any of the ICE choices. In addition to worrying about charging and how to find a charger, there was the stress of being in a foreign country with a foreign language. I do have to say that since my wife is Norwegian, she was able to translate any Norwegian signs. And the fact that the Volvo is a terrific car helped, too. I was able to change the Nav screen to English, and was able to quickly figure out how to use it to find the nearest charge that was where we were going stop. 

Yes, it took longer to charge the car than getting petrol, but we went to the grocery store or took a nice walk along a beautiful lake, so it wasn't a total waste of time. After the first time going through charging the car, it was a non-issue the rest of the trip. In Norway, gas is the equivalent of $9 a gallon, afterwards I figured out that the cost of the EV was about a third of that.

The car drove great, was silent and vibration free, and it's as quick as my Cayman S in a straight line. Handy when you want to pass a slow truck on a typical Norwegian secondary road with very few straights.

My brother-in-law was dead set against EVs, but we took him for a drive (including a quick charge), and afterwards he was converted to a fan of electrics. The most impressive thing for him was how slient and effortless it made it up the very steep hill from the family cottage on a fjord to the paved road above.  

So yes, there are cases where an EV towing a big trailer in a remote area won't work, but for the vast majority of drivers, they are great for the vast majority of uses. Shaking your fist and yelling at clouds is not going to stop the inevitable transition to electric cars.

RacerBoy75 said:

Shaking your fist and yelling at clouds is not going to stop the inevitable transition to electric cars.

Inevitable??? We beat this up everytime........it's far from inevitable.

We are in the early stages of EVs and it will be 15-20 years before we know which way the market will go.

EVs are neither the panacea stalwarts make them out to be nor are the going to burst into flames at.any moment.

They are simply an alternate solution that works better for some than others.

CNN is reporting Ford is losing $132k on every EV sold. 

Ouch.

I have more commentary, but no desire to be under a patio.