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Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/26/23 7:52 p.m.

That does sound like the fuel level in the bowl is too low.  That can be caused by a misadjusted float.  It's weird because normally floats lose bouyancy and sink, causing you to have way too much fuel and the engine floods.  (You didn't mention having to flood-start it after it stalls)  It takes wrenches to make the float level too low smiley

 

On the other hand, this may be a non issue if the idle speed is correct, and may be some characteristic that only presents itself when trying to operate the system outside of its normal range.  IE fix the idle speed first.

 

Part of me says to disable the brake switch with a ziptie and try again.  You said it does not have power brakes, the next thing that comes to mind is a loose battery connection, the sudden current surge of the brake lights can cause the voltage to snap down and the vehicle to stall.  More of a problem with electronics than points.

 

Another weird one was an RX-7 that would stall in right hand turns.  After years of head scratching, he posted the problem and the fix.  RX-7s have round canister coils mounted on their sides, pointed to the right.  Over the years a lot of oil leaked out of the coils.  In a right turn, the oil would slosh to the bottom of the coils, which by whatever mechanism was killing the spark.  Replacing the coils fixed it.  IIRC he figured it out when he removed the coils and they seemed a little light.

 

So, um...  how's the coil pointed?  smiley 

 

Can you get it to cut out by accelerating hard in Reverse?

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/26/23 9:21 p.m.
1988RedT2 said:
kb58 said:

Some people still badmouth EFI systems...

Show me these people!  I do not believe that they exist!  laugh

I've owned plenty of carbureted vehicles.  I was ready to put a 4-barrel on the Chevy II and I didn't even put up a fight when a knowledgeable friend advised me to go with a Holley EFI system.

I think EFI is superior in almost every way, it's just that I have never built one.  I can rebuild a Qjet in a boat at midnight 3 miles out at sea.  I know, because I've done it.  Bonuses to each system, drawbacks to each system.

octavious
octavious Dork
8/27/23 3:46 p.m.

First my apologies for all my previous typos.  I was using my phone and I now realize I had a lot of spelling and grammar issues.  Thanks for staying with me through those.  

So I adjusted the idle speed screw, using the second notch as based on the diagram.  I drove it around my neighborhood and it still had the same issues.  I tried giving it the beans and then slamming on the brakes going in reverse, and it did not stall.  I came home and found the speed screw was sitting on the first notch and not the second.  I readjusted it to the second and went for another drive, same issues. 

I came home again, and it was on the first notch again, so I adjusted it to the first notch this time.  No matter what I did it wouldn't die.  So I went for a longer drive to the FLAPS to get starter fluid.  The whole drive there was fine.  No issues.  No stalling.  No stumbling.  When I arrived at the FLAPS it was idling high, so I backed the screw out a quarter turn.  I then had a short drive and it was fine.  I went to leave maybe 15mins later and it stumbled a little, but ran fine. 

At one point I came to  a stop light and it wanted to stumble, but I used gave the redneck choke cable a small pull and it idled fine.  Next stop light I used the redneck cable again.  Last 5 stoplights to my house it had no issues.  I wonder if I didn't let it get the fuel going enough from the last stop before attempting to drive it that caused the issues coming home. 

I got home, it idled fine.  I sprayed carb cleaner all over the carb, hoses, etc.  The only time I had an idle change was at the carb to manifold bolt closest to the firewall on the passenger side.  I tightened all the bolts after that.  

octavious
octavious Dork
8/27/23 3:47 p.m.

The only hose not connected somewhere and does not have a plug is this one coming out of the carb. However, if I leave it open or plug it there is no change to the idle. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/27/23 5:07 p.m.

Ignore that first notch/second notch crap.  That is for some weird Chrysler reason. 

 

If you note, they want you to adjust it to 1800 when on the second notch.  Hot idle is on the first (well, last.  Lowest) notch, second notch is when it is still warming up.  Set hot idle with it on the hot idle (lowest) notch, cold idle will be where it is, for now.  Carb must work well hot before you worry about the cold enrichments.  Just like tuning EFI wink

 

That hose looks like a remote vent for the fuel bowl, probably used to go to a charcoal canister.  It should definitely not be plugged and should probably be routed to the filtered side of the air cleaner.

octavious said:

At one point I came to  a stop light and it wanted to stumble, but I used gave the redneck choke cable a small pull and it idled fine.  Next stop light I used the redneck cable again.  Last 5 stoplights to my house it had no issues.  I wonder if I didn't let it get the fuel going enough from the last stop before attempting to drive it that caused the issues coming home.

What means this?  I thought it was electric choke?

Did you drive it after you tightened down the manifold bolt(s)?

As Pete mentioned, all adjustments to the carb need to be at full opp temp, forgot to mention that....

octavious
octavious Dork
8/27/23 8:11 p.m.

In reply to ГУЛАГ мальчик УР следующий :

I didn't get a chance to drive it after tightening down the manifold bolts. Tomorrow I will. 
 

And as I wrote it is the best way I know to describe it. There is an odd lever in the passenger compartment and when you pull it, the throttle increases. It's almost like a hand operated gas pedal. I've seen them on rock crawlers where you work the brake and clutch with your feet, and the throttle with your hand so it doesn't stall. I assume what I have is some ghetto version of that setup.  

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/27/23 8:22 p.m.

In reply to octavious :

Common on anything with a winch, too.

octavious
octavious Dork
8/27/23 8:30 p.m.

I hate to say it because I want it to run perfect, but that hand throttle is a nice scape goat when it wants to die in traffic. 
 

I forgot to mention I ran into an issue trying to check the timing. I have an old Craftsman timing light that needs to connect to the battery, but my battery was relocated to I front of the back seat. I'm honestly not sure why, but that's where it is. The cables form my timing light aren't long enough to connect to the battery and distributor. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/27/23 8:37 p.m.

You should be able to grab power at the alternator.

octavious
octavious Dork
8/27/23 8:51 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

So I use the positive to the alternator and just ground the negative to the frame/chassis somewhere? 

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/27/23 9:12 p.m.

As to your original question:

Can outside temp cause a carb’d vehicle to stall?

I would say a provisional "yes".  But usually only when it gets cold and the choke is not adjusted correctly.

When your Jeep is totally warmed up, engine off and remove your air filter.  Is your choke plate open or closed?  Warmed up, the choke plate should be all the way open.  Like this.

 

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/27/23 9:31 p.m.

After your Jeep sits overnight (totally cold) you jump in the Jeep and push the throttle pedal down ONCE.  This will set the automatic choke.  Do not start the Jeep. Do not even put the key in the ignition.  Get out and remove the air cleaner.

The choke should look like this:

When the choke plate rotates closed the linkage rotates the fast idle cam into the fast idle position.  

Is your choke open when warmed up and closed after it sits overnight and pumping the throttle pedal once?

Next.  Do you have a hand vacuum pump?  Like this?

Don't worry if you don't.  You will just need a clean section of vacuum line instead.

octavious
octavious Dork
8/29/23 1:03 p.m.

It has sat since Sun. This is how it looked when I walked out to it. 
 

This is how it looked after I pressed the gas pedal one time.

 

This is how it looked after an hour long drive  on some two lane backroads, and a two lane highway. 

octavious
octavious Dork
8/29/23 1:06 p.m.

The only issue I had was it was hard to start. Eventually giving it a little gas while cranking got it to start. Then it was fine. 

Like I said above, I then took it for over an hour drive on backroads. I drove all over and tried to make repeat some of the previous issues.  Specifically, I tried to make it do the stopping/stalling issue, but I could not get it rod repeat.  I also let the engine slow itself down to idle which it bounced low a few times, but never stalled.  And I gave it some good romps on the gas pedal  and let the idle come back down on its own.  Everything seemed to work fine. 
 

This is the first time I've driven since I rest the idle speed screw, and since I tightened the bolts holding the carb to the intake. 

Recon1342
Recon1342 SuperDork
8/29/23 1:52 p.m.

In reply to octavious :

It sounds like you  had un-metered air from the loose bolts and poor idle speed screw setting combine to cause your stalling condition.  How was the timing? 

outasite
outasite HalfDork
8/29/23 3:19 p.m.

In reply to octavious :

There is no exact procedure for starting a car with carburetor/electric choke. When you push the accelerator pedal when the engine is cold, the linkage sets the choke and cold idle cam. The accelerator pump in the carb squirts gasoline directly into the bore/s of the carb at the same time. Some engines require more than one pump the the pedal. So try pumping the pedal two times and then start the car. Do not pump the accelerator while trying to start the car. This action may flood the engine making it difficult to start. If the engine becomes flooded, hold the accelerator to the floor. This will open the throttle and choke plate to allow more air to enter the combustion chambers and clear the flooding.

Back in the day when I sold a car I would tell the buyer the the number of times to pump the pedal for cold starts.

In your last photo the choke plate does not appear to be fully open. It may be the camera angle. Choke plate should vertical.

Noddaz
Noddaz GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
8/29/23 9:23 p.m.

In your last photo the choke plate does not appear to be fully open. It may be the camera angle. Choke plate should vertical.

*******

Agreed.  When fully warmed up the choke plate should be fully open.

And maybe you have found the secret to starting your jeep 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter)
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
8/29/23 10:05 p.m.

In reply to outasite :

Agreed.  Last photo shows the choke partially closed.  After about 20 minutes of driving, it should be wide open.  You can look up the actual procedures for your application, but on a cold day/cold engine, the choke should snap shut with a click when you move the throttle.  On a hot day, it should close, but maybe not the whole way tight.  Once you operate the engine for a while, the electric choke should have heated up enough to fully open the choke vertical.

You can accomplish this one of two ways; Set it cold and make sure it closes to the right spec, or set it hot and open it until it's vertical.  It's simple to set.  There are three screws on the plastic cover of the choke.  Loosen them and rotate the plastic cover to get more/less choke.

Until then, try this if it gives you fits:  If it doesn't want to start, hold your foot to the floor and crank a while.  There is a tab on the throttle that forces the choke open at WOT.  By pressing the accelerator, you're giving it a pump squirt of fuel temporarily making the situation worse (for a few cranks) but the resulting open choke and throttle blades make a lean condition during cranking.  Eventually the cylinders will get down to a mix that it can ignite and you're good to go.

L5wolvesf
L5wolvesf Dork
8/29/23 10:18 p.m.
octavious said:

This is the first time I've driven since I rest the idle speed screw, and since I tightened the bolts holding the carb to the intake

I would replace that gasket as it has been compromised. 

outasite
outasite HalfDork
8/30/23 5:17 p.m.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I left out why setting the choke plate and fast idle cam is important and operating the accelerator pedal only exacerbates the starting procedure. With the choke plate closed and the throttle partially opened, a vacuum between the two is formed drawing fuel from the idle and main metering circuits to enrich the air fuel ratio being drawn into the intake. The engine should start and run at a fast idle.

For those interested, GM produced a training/educational video using a clear plastic choke plate to demonstrate how to start an engine with an automatic choke. It is available on You Tube under GM carburetor choke operation. Enjoy

octavious
octavious Dork
9/1/23 4:03 p.m.

TLDR I ran it out of gas and now can't get it to start. 
 

Long version, I drove it that hour Tues. and then let it sit until Thurs. when I was out of town for work.  I drove it Thurs fine for a 20 min trip one way and then back home. I drove it again this morning a lot. 5 trips including two over 30 mins each.

I stopped and got a fuel filter and spark plugs, and then ran it out of gas as I was coming back into my neighborhood. I went ahead and changed the file filter because the tank was already empty. I added 5 gallons of ethanol free gas, 

I can't get it to start. I assume the bowl is entirely dry?   The engine is less than luke warm but not cold. I can put my hand on it and hold it there and feel warm ish, but I wouldn't call it hot or cold.  The choke is partially open. Pulling the throttle does not make it move it all. If I spray starting fluid into it it will sputter but not catch. 

octavious
octavious Dork
9/1/23 4:08 p.m.

Well scratch that I just got it started. 

octavious
octavious Dork
9/1/23 4:30 p.m.

This is the choke after it is warmed up, and did not have stalling issues. 
 

Also, I wished one of y'all lived in Knoxville. Lol

outasite
outasite HalfDork
9/1/23 9:12 p.m.

Send a picture to the other side of the carburetor including the round housing containing the bimetal spring please.

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