I LOVE steam but I'm asking how the various parts of the frame and body and drivetrain were built and assembled? Was there any welding in 1906? How were the frame rails and crossmembers fixed to each other?
And in Jays Stanley, he mentions being made of wood. What was wood?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Me8b0ed59s
In that time period they probably had brazing, and they had all sorts of rivets. I don't know anything about Stanley's, but structural wood was definitely still a thing then.
ebonyandivory wrote: What was wood?
frame and body. My Grandfather was an "automotive body man" way back. His tool box is 90% all carpentry tools.
Early metal frames were joined with rivets.
ebonyandivory wrote: Was there any welding in 1906?
Yes, there was. Gas and arc.
Since you asked, Welding History
The reason I ask it that given the time and basic tools, why can't one recreate something like a very early 1900's car similar to a Stanley in basic design?
Do people do this? I find very expensive and rare REAL examples but never any wholesale replicas.
you can basically buy a Model T in parts and assemble from the internet.
Fueled by Caffeine wrote: you can basically buy a Model T in parts and assemble from the internet.
Right, but I guess I'm thinking making a hand built car would be fun?
You can, but it's a lot of work. Anything can be made with enough time and determination.
ebonyandivory wrote:Fueled by Caffeine wrote: you can basically buy a Model T in parts and assemble from the internet.Right, but I guess I'm thinking making a hand built car would be fun?
Maybe so, but how many years has JoeyM been building his 1930's Datsun replica? I think he's been at it since before I joined this forum.
My father collected brass era cars all of his life, a few quick pics of his '07 Maxwell:
Other than just a little occasional braising of the body panels and some soldiering of the radiators, everything was riveted, bolted, or nailed together. Very often there was wooden framework under the body panels and they were nailed to it with welting (most often used fire hose) where the wear points would be.
No reason at all that you can't build your own brass era car. Begin with a nice Model T (or similar) frame as these are VERY well built and plentiful, and go on from there. Even in the past, people would often build their own bodies up on top of various chassis. Some cars were sold as a chassis with just radiators or body cowls attached and the buyers would contract with a coach builder to finish them, or do it themselves if something special was required.
As late as the Second World War, people would strip all or part of the bodies from their cars and build them back up into trucks in order to acquire more gas rations as commercial vehicles were far less restricted than passenger cars at that time.
If you have the will and talent, you MUST do this, and post a ton of pics for us to enjoy. Just be careful to sort things through ahead of time. Drawing/sketches/photos/diagrams are essential. If you come up with something that you like, have it en;atged at a blueprint shop to life-size and tack it to the wall. That way you won't run amuck with the finished product/project. A WHOLE ton of folks make really drastic mistakes and don't ever seem to notice it, even when done with their home-made old-style cars.
Luck, looking forward to this one !
TC
that Maxwell looks like it has what has to be some of the first automotive bucket seats in it..
here is a video that shows how Chevrolet did things in 1936:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvAH-Yskyio
I'm thinking early '10 with very little body work like this:
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novaderrik wrote: that Maxwell looks like it has what has to be some of the first automotive bucket seats in it.. here is a video that shows how Chevrolet did things in 1936: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvAH-Yskyio
Cool movie! I like how "The End" is actually a chunk of cast iron and probably weighs over ten pounds...... "THE END" had to poured in a foundry and hand processed before they could film the end of the movie. Of course, now days they end a movie with computer generated graphics.
In reply to ebonyandivory:
That's had the body removed at some point.
I'm lead mechanic in a restoration shop, we specialise in 1930's and earlier cars.
The wood framing in the body tends to be white oak, maple or ash depending on who and where the car was built.
Wood chassis were very, very early and not far from the wagons being built to be pulled by horses at the time. Same materials were used in the chassis as the body framing.
The GN cyclecar has a wooden chassis, have a look at the fitting used to attach parts to the framerails: 
HappyAndy wrote: structural wood was definitely still a thing then.
For some of us it still is....oh, you were talking about cars. Errr, never mind.
In reply to Trans_Maro:
That's beautiful!
Weren't some cars of the day built on perfectly straight framerails?
Is it possible to start with 2x3" straight rails and use stuff from Tractor Supply or make shackles and hangers for trailer leaf-packs?
I keep dreaming of using a Ford 300 six, and building around that similar to the picture I posted above.
I know there a lot to it and the craftsmanship is beyond my abilities to recreate much of those fittings but the basics look... Basic
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Hold on a minute!
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Long C section iron and rivets. Then rivet some brackets on. Bolt things to that. Wooden frame with sheet metal wrapped over it. You could assemble/fix them with two adjustable wrenches and a screwdriver. I too have dreams of building my own car from scratch.
Yes, some brass era cars had flat framerails.
I wouldn't use dimensional lumber you can buy at LowesDepot, no way would I trust fir or spruce to frame duty.
If I were thinking about a wooden chassis, I'd be looking at some nice, clear (no knots), straight oak beams, about 3" x 4" (actual size, not dimensional lumber sizes). You would have to talk to a sawmill about that.
I like to work on a reasonable budget when it's my own projects. That would make me build my own frame members by laminating layers of marine plywood together to build a beam with the dimensions I need.
It might not be period-correct but it would be a hell of a lot safer.
That cyclecar frame above has been dry, straight and soaked in oil for about 100 years now. I would trust it but I wouldn't trust new lumber that hadn't been in storage a good, long while.
I would look at a lighter engine if I were you.
That Ford six weighs a whole lot more than the aircraft engine in the cyclecar pictured.
That flatbed looks like a Packard truck. Have you got any idea what it is?
In reply to Trans_Maro:
It's a 1909 Federal and it's very much what I think about aside from the sheer length of it.
Trans_Maro wrote: Yes, some brass era cars had flat framerails. I wouldn't use dimensional lumber you can buy at LowesDepot, no way would I trust fir or spruce to frame duty. If I were thinking about a wooden chassis, I'd be looking at some nice, clear (no knots), straight oak beams, about 3" x 4" (actual size, not dimensional lumber sizes). You would have to talk to a sawmill about that. I like to work on a reasonable budget when it's my own projects. That would make me build my own frame members by laminating layers of marine plywood together to build a beam with the dimensions I need. It might not be period-correct but it would be a hell of a lot safer. That cyclecar frame above has been dry, straight and soaked in oil for about 100 years now. I would trust it but I wouldn't trust new lumber that hadn't been in storage a good, long while. I would look at a lighter engine if I were you. That Ford six weighs a whole lot more than the aircraft engine in the cyclecar pictured. That flatbed looks like a Packard truck. Have you got any idea what it is?
I agree with your assessment of the wood (type, size, straight grained, etc).
One more thing...
A frame built 100+ years ago would have been from an old growth forest. These trees could have been 200 years or more old when harvested (sometimes up to 600).
Slow growth trees have very tight annular rings, which makes them very stable, straight, and strong.
Modern stands of trees are managed by timber companies, who cannot afford to wait 200 years for harvest. They promote quicker growth techniques, and harvest in 60 years or so.
This makes larger annular rings, and weaker wood.
Due to modern forestry practices, there are essentially no old growth forests any more (especially oak). For the last 100 years, fires are routinely extinguished, but are necessary for the growth of old oak.
The milling process for the best lumber was a technique called "quarter sawn". It makes the straightest grain, but wastes the most wood in the cutting process, so it is rarely used today (never for framing lumber).
Bottom line, yeah, new wood is NO WHERE near the quality of old wood.
Cleve Curtiss
Sourcing large spoked wheels is another must. Wheels make the car imo
The spoked wheels on that Federal are wood spokes, probably hickory. Inspect stuff like that very carefully if you plan to use it.
Your best bet might be to dig up an old 'teens to twenties firetruck and strip it down to make it what you want.
Old firetrucks have got big engines, transmissions, heavy frames, etc and hardly anyone wants them which makes them relatively cheap. Museums want things for free so you might be able to pick one up for slightly more than free.
Shawn
Why not build a cycle kart first then move on from there?
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