Confusing, maybe, but I keep hearing companies couldn't build "X" because it would take sales away from "Y". The 1990/2gen Fiero (X) and the Corvette (Y) is one example I hear a lot. Also, it seems like most of the Xs I hear about would have been very interesting cars...
Any other examples out there?
Porsche 944 is another one that stands out.
Long before the C8 there were often rumors of GM working on a mid-range mid-engined sports car, or sometimes they would even show a concept, and then nothing would come of it, supposedly because it would take sales away from the Corvette.
Apparently nobody ever told this to Toyota in the '90s when they made a huge, apparently overlapping range of sporty cars all at once...but more recently rumors are that they haven't made a suped-up Toyobaru because it would take sales away from the Toyobimmer.
Would more 510's sell over Z cars? Or what happened to that IDx car?
2008 recession killed off the Honda HSV-010.
Supposedly it was close enough to production ready they were allowed to race it in Super GT.
Toyota had all the stuff to make a killer 2ZZ-powered MR2 Spyder from the factory, it's practically a bolt-together swap and I think that the car would have a bit stronger reputation if they had built it. But they never did. I've heard two theories; one was that people refrained from buying the 140hp 1ZZ version since a 180hp 2ZZ version seemed like a foregone conclusion, only for sales of the 1ZZ version to be so low that Toyota didn't think it made sense to produce a 2ZZ version. The other, and more relevant to this thread, was that Toyota was supplying 2ZZs to Lotus and had a non-compete agreement and felt that a 2ZZ Spyder would have been a little too close in terms of performance to the Lotus Elise/Exige and so they couldn't make it.
The Pontiac Banshee was basically production ready, a Pontiac version of the Corvette, using the same platform but cheaper in price and using Pontiac V8s, but GM stopped it from going any further because they didn't want it to undercut the 'Vette.
NickD said:The Pontiac Banshee was basically production ready, a Pontiac version of the Corvette, using the same platform but cheaper in price and using Pontiac V8s, but GM stopped it from going any further because they didn't want it to undercut the 'Vette.
Better looking IMO too...
Dodge supposedly had a 2.4 turbo powered, possibly AWD version of the Dart on the drawing board. Seems this one didn't make it to production because the Dart wasn't selling.
In reply to MadScientistMatt :
Modern Dart? The Giuletta based car?
j_tso said:2008 recession killed off the Honda HSV-010.
This was the first one I thought of as well. IIRC Honda killed off the next-gen NSX because of the '08 collapse, didn't have a replacement for the GT series and so they put together the HSV-10.
tl'dr-
In reply to alfadriver :
Yeah, I remember them announcing a Dart SRT-4, it was supposed to be AWD too, I recall. I think they were also running them in Global Rallycross at the time.
The Chrysler Crossfire with a Hemi.
Wasn't there supposed to be a new head for the SVO that was supposedly gonna really boost the power?
Here's the one that gets me...The Camaro is gone and The Mustang is on life support.
They should have made a 4 door Camaro and Mustang.
Now, before you freak out at the thought and accuse me of heresy, keep in mind that the same thing was said about Jeeps, that a true Jeep soft-top had to be 2 doors. Look what happened there. After a million year delay they finally offered a 4 door. Now, the 4 door must outsell the 2 door 100:1. Heck, I'm amazed they still offer a 2 door.
If a Camaro/Mustang 4 door had been offered, people with kids would buy them to tote the offspring to school during the week and then possibly take it to the track on the weekend. The popularity of these 4 door sales would be the very thing that keeps the brand/model alive.
Imagine:
In reply to John Welsh :
In an odd way when Porsche brought out those 4-door cars.......
I WANT that camaro!
stan said:NickD said:The Pontiac Banshee was basically production ready, a Pontiac version of the Corvette, using the same platform but cheaper in price and using Pontiac V8s, but GM stopped it from going any further because they didn't want it to undercut the 'Vette.
Better looking IMO too...
Opel GT in that...
NickD said:The Pontiac Banshee was basically production ready, a Pontiac version of the Corvette, using the same platform but cheaper in price and using Pontiac V8s, but GM stopped it from going any further because they didn't want it to undercut the 'Vette.
I think it was to poke John Delorean in the eye. A lot of politics at play.
John Welsh said:Here's the one that gets me...The Camaro is gone and The Mustang is on life support.
They should have made a 4 door Camaro and Mustang.
Now, before you freak out at the thought and accuse me of heresy, keep in mind that the same thing was said about Jeeps, that a true Jeep soft-top had to be 2 doors. Look what happened there. After a million year delay they finally offered a 4 door. Now, the 4 door must outsell the 2 door 100:1. Heck, I'm amazed they still offer a 2 door.
If a Camaro/Mustang 4 door had been offered, people with kids would buy them to tote the offspring to school during the week and then possibly take it to the track on the weekend. The popularity of these 4 door sales would be the very thing that keeps the brand/model alive.
Imagine:
CTS-V sedan...close, yeah? Or SS/Holden.
The Dodge Charger already exists.
Had we lived in a different timeline, GM owning a company that had years of turbocharging experience, and the underutilized Atlas inline six engine, they could have made the SAAB 9-7x Aero something other than a rebadged trailblazer SS.
375-450 reliable factory hp, AWD, howling 4.2 liter boosted straight 6, 4 doors and a lift gate rear. It would have hit new car shows within a year of the second Fast and Furious movie. People would have forgotten the Skyline with similar performance potential from a US available grocery getter..
A 401 CJ said:NickD said:The Pontiac Banshee was basically production ready, a Pontiac version of the Corvette, using the same platform but cheaper in price and using Pontiac V8s, but GM stopped it from going any further because they didn't want it to undercut the 'Vette.
I think it was to poke John Delorean in the eye. A lot of politics at play.
You could write an entire book on the subject of cars being canceled or choked down because GM didn't want to dethrone their precious Corvette. Don't make the Corvette better, heavens no, just make everything worse.
There was a Buick engineer who said Buick had more plans for the turbo V6 than just the Grand National/GNX and had a number of prototypes running around at Milford that were basically production-ready, including a Lesabre Limited Estate Wagon and both FWD and AWD Reattas. They were out doing acceleration testing at Milford Proving Ground, and the Corvette guys were there and they decided to have a little shootout and they outran the Corvette with the Lesabre wagon. The Corvette guys left and went to management and within a week, management came down and shut down the whole Buick V6 program and axed any plans to put the cars into production.
NickD said:A 401 CJ said:NickD said:The Pontiac Banshee was basically production ready, a Pontiac version of the Corvette, using the same platform but cheaper in price and using Pontiac V8s, but GM stopped it from going any further because they didn't want it to undercut the 'Vette.
I think it was to poke John Delorean in the eye. A lot of politics at play.
You could write an entire book on the subject of cars being canceled or choked down because GM didn't want to dethrone their precious Corvette. Don't make the Corvette better, heavens no, just make everything worse.
There was a Buick engineer who said Buick had more plans for the turbo V6 than just the Grand National/GNX and had a number of prototypes running around at Milford that were basically production-ready, including a Lesabre Limited Estate Wagon and both FWD and AWD Reattas. They were out doing acceleration testing at Milford Proving Ground, and the Corvette guys were there and they decided to have a little shootout and they outran the Corvette with the Lesabre wagon. The Corvette guys left and went to management and within a week, management came down and shut down the whole Buick V6 program and axed any plans to put the cars into production.
GM is it's own worst enemy. It's like they were an arm of the US Gov't even before the '08 crisis, constantly hamstringing themselves.
In reply to DirtyBird222 :
Yes, we're talking about GM here. The company that couldn't figure out how to keep the Camaro alive, took too long to get the Fiero right and spent how many years thinking badge engineering was the way to go, yet thought it a good idea to build the SSR and build a car that had to be shipped back and forth to Italy to have the body put on.
It's also the same company that absolutely nailed it with the C8 and the Blackwings. Makes me scratch my head.
In reply to SKJSS (formerly Klayfish) :
Don't forget spending years, and millions of dollars, developing a wild hot-vee turbo DOHC V8, only to introduce it right as the car they planned to put it in was leaving production, and then realized that it didn't fit anything else. Yeah, remember the LTA "Blackwing" V8? $16 million down the drain for an engine that they put in 800 cars and then put out to pasture.
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