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Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
3/12/09 5:33 p.m.
Jerry From LA wrote: One program that does work.... I "retired" my '89 Nissan Sentra with the State of CA for $1000. It wouldn't pass a smog test anymore. Not without a cat anyway. Unfortunately, this car had a totally butchered exhaust system so I'd have to start from scratch. The car wasn't the straightest in the world so I took the money.

Prime example of wasted state (taxpayer) money, IMO. This car could have been back on the road with a fresh smog-test pass with an exhaust system from another car at the junkyard and a new aftermarket catalytic converter, about $150 later and it's a perfectly functioning car. Instead of fixing it and driving it for another month or year or decade, it's now a ball of metal on its way to China. What a waste. Now Jerry has another "gross polluter" in his yard that his fellow taxpayers paid for, and if he decides this one isn't worth the hassle the cycle continues. Nothing against Jerry, like he said, the system lets it happen.

Bryce

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA Reader
3/12/09 9:03 p.m.
Nashco wrote: Prime example of wasted state (taxpayer) money, IMO. This car could have been back on the road with a fresh smog-test pass with an exhaust system from another car at the junkyard and a new aftermarket catalytic converter, about $150 later and it's a perfectly functioning car. Instead of fixing it and driving it for another month or year or decade, it's now a ball of metal on its way to China. What a waste. Now Jerry has another "gross polluter" in his yard that his fellow taxpayers paid for, and if he decides this one isn't worth the hassle the cycle continues. Nothing against Jerry, like he said, the system lets it happen. Bryce

I didn't can the car because of the cat. I canned it because it wasn't straight enough to be worth fixing. My exhaust system was shot from too many previous hacks cutting and welding badly. So my car needed a completely new system.

Finding an intact head pipe at the local Pick-Your-Part is near impossible. Why? Because it's illegal to sell a used cat in the state of CA so all the yards torch them off. They usually hack about a foot of precious head pipe along with it. I searched every you-pull-it yard for 50 miles around and not one good head pipe.

The head pipe on that car is expensive. You can find the rear sections readily but the price for the head pipe is prohibitive. Just recently, I was underneath another '89 Sentra yanking the oil pan for an engine I just rebuilt. The car had a fully intact head pipe but this is months after my car is gone. Too little too late.

Furthermore, I am unemployed for the moment so there was no money left to fix my Sentra, even if I wanted to. By turning it in to the state, I got enough money to buy a car, make it pass a smog test and pay for some groceries.

While you may believe this program is "wasted state (taxpayer) money," air pollution has a heavy social cost. It accounts for increased sick time, the ozone ages everything made of rubber (and lung tissue) prematurely, and plays hell with little kids respiratory systems especially. So paying me a grand to take that car off the road probably saved the taxpayers at least double that in Medi-Cal payouts and maintenance expenses alone.

Perhaps you objected to my cavalier attitude. I can understand that. However, I'm trying to inject a little levity into a bad situation. It made no sense to put more money into that Sentra. Believe me when I tell you the car was tired.

Also, if you read the post completely, I said a person must own the car for three years before being eligible for the program. What I didn't say is the entity doing the testing must determine the car could live at least three more years were it not for flunking the smog test. How they determine that I do not know. That car would need a bag full of cash to stay alive another three years but I qualified nonetheless.

Finally, unless your family and mine stop buying stuff from China, that's where the steel will go. It came from Japan so to me it's like going home. Perhaps the President's idea to curtail tax cuts to companies shipping jobs overseas will help the situation. By the way, the state didn't give China the steel for free. China paid for it along with the copper and the aluminum, both of which are still sky-high.

Finally finally, I reserve the right to decide whether or not to sink more money into a car or punt on it. Believe me when I tell you I keep a small flotilla of beaters for customers and friends in good service and passing smog tests. That means a whole lot of cars stay out of the boneyard and contributing to water pollution.

If someone offered you a grand for one of your cars that wasn't worth half that, you'd jump at the chance. I did. Now I have a car with much more potential. It will never look great but the interior is much nicer, it has an air conditioner and I can live with it until either my freelance stuff picks up or I land a job or both.

ClemSparks
ClemSparks SuperDork
3/13/09 8:35 a.m.
skruffy wrote:
mistanfo wrote: A funny article linked from the original Flywheel on a Grand Marquis. Sealed pistons. I love it when people write about things that they know nothing about.
The oil pan is a wear item on a grand marquis?

It can be...

This is to serve as a place saver until I can get to youtube and post our Back 40 racing "one lap" vid.

ignorant
ignorant SuperDork
3/13/09 8:38 a.m.
Jerry From LA wrote: If someone offered you a grand for one of your cars that wasn't worth half that, you'd jump at the chance.

Whether we think this is a waste or a positive move forward. It comes down to simple economics. I'd take the money and my convictions wouldn't be hurt in the least as I ran all the way to the bank.

benzbaron
benzbaron Reader
3/13/09 4:24 p.m.

They want to turn my benz into german beer drinking mugs. Every time I register it the air quality board wants to buy it. I can't help it, but this was an "economy" car from mercedes. I get a whole 20mpg on the freeway if I drive slowly. Unfortunately the economy was created by leaning out the mixture which creates lots of NOx and the hippies go off about pollution. A viscious cycle, I create smog which creates ozone, which eats the rubber bits on my car.

Nashco
Nashco SuperDork
3/13/09 4:57 p.m.

Jerry, I'm with you about the economics of it, like I said if the system is created to operate that way, then that's the way things will pan out.

You lost me on helping air quality by crushing old cars. Consider the amount of air pollution created by crushing that car, shipping it to China, reconstituting the metal in China, shipping the metal to five or six different plants, and finally turning it into a product. Let's pretend for a moment that product is a new car with super ultra low emissions that you'll drive for 300k miles. Do you really think this is helping air quality? Obviously, this depends on thousands of variables along the way, it's really a rhetorical question as food for thought.

I'm just as guilty as you for using tax payer money to fund my fleet. This year I'll be getting several hundred dollars in tax rebates for building a race car. Why? Because the system allows it, that's why!

Bryce

Jerry From LA
Jerry From LA Reader
3/14/09 4:11 p.m.

Bryce, I wrote an article for my blog about this very thing. Driving old cars until they're absolutely used up helps the environment. Keeping them out of the recylcling bin as long as possible helps everybody. However, here's the difference:

This car was absolutely used up. I was facing many more repairs than the exhaust. The car cost me 375 bucks in an impound auction and I kept it alive for four more years. The engine was still fine but the rest of the car was falling apart around it.

Also, this car was a gross polluter. If it passed a smog test, I would still be driving it. An old car in good running condition and able to pass a smog test is much cleaner than building a new car from scratch with its far greater content. This car could not pass a smog test anymore. It had a hard life. I carfaxed it once just for giggles and it had 14 previous owners.

After disposing of this car I went and bought another car from the impound auction which, if I didn't bid on it, was going straight to the crusher. There were no other bids, except for the standing 200-dollar bid from the local Pick-Your-Part. I am fixing the car with parts procured mostly from the junk yard. Stuff like brake pads, shoes, and hoses are new (I don't have a death wish). Everything else is used. So at every turn I am keeping stuff out of the recycling loop.

If you want to read more about how I conduct myself automotively, read all about it here.

Jerry

Tim Baxter
Tim Baxter Online Editor
7/24/09 10:49 a.m.

"Ending is better than mending" -- Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

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