Challenge friendly RWD powerplants

1uzfe? 4.0 litres of quad cam v8 goodness.

Here's an interesting one, ready?

Mazda F2T. Yes. I said F2T. That disgusting sounding 2.2 litre 4 banger with it's 3v/cylinder weirdness, and it's sky-high 7.8:1 compression moving one cam in all it's glory. Some would say it sounds like a truck motor, and for good reason, and that's where it gets interesting.

It IS a truck motor. A different iteration of what gets put in the B2200 truck. And yes... it bolts up to the truck tranny.

I got your RWD right here.

It's a stump puller, and built like a brick E36 M3house. You want 300whp on a stock 200k mile motor? Go for it. You'll probably get almost 400wtq along the way.

Invest in some wide sticky rear tires.

I'll warn you though... it's a TERRIBLE sounding motor. Really. It sounds like a cross between a 4 cylinder cummins, a metro with an exhaust leak, and a supra running 50+psi of boost.

Or at least mine does.

I have a 5-speed Mazda B2200 trans., too, if you need.

-Les

Lots of fun here. I am a huge proponent of the LS, Gen III/IV engines, but I think it's going to be too snug. Whatever you do, take some fuzzy pictures and let us know something about what you're doing. That's a very small engine bay, classic Mini maybe?

I am thinking Rabbit.

fastasleep wrote: order the proper bellhousing to mate the 4G63 to your W-50-series or R154 (from a turbo Supra; don't think THEY will be in the Pull-A-Part, though). The bellhousing set-up for the W-50-series is about $250.

W-50 series is a little general here. It needs to be a W56, W57, or W58 to have a removable bellhousing. Luckily for y'all, I think every W-series found in anything in the US Toyota made after 1982 or so has either a W56 (trucks) or W58 (Celicas, Supras).

turbo K-car and dakota 5 speed

RossD wrote: turbo K-car and dakota 5 speed

Dakota 2.2 (later 2.5) 5-speeds came in two flavors....the early (87-93) trannies were made out of glass and paper mache. Designation code is NV535, IIRC. The later ones (94-on) were an AX-15, which is the same trans that Jeep put behind the 4.0. They'll take some abuse.

Dodge went to the 2.5 AMC lump in the Dakota in '96. Good engine, but a different bellhousing bolt pattern than the Chrysler 2.2/2.5. So, you'll need a bellhousing from a 94 or 95 Dakota 2.5.

Supposedly, the R154 turbo supra box is internally and externally similar to the AX-15, to the point that the bell from a 2.5 Dodge AX-15 will bolt to the R154...giving you an even stouter trans that will bolt up behind the Chrysler 2.2/2.5. I don't know about the input shaft splines or diameter or what you'd have to do to make a clutch work.

Heres a "little" run down on locostusa.com

John Brown wrote: I am thinking Rabbit.

I'm ALWAYS thinking Rabbit.

The platform is a Rabbit Pickup. This has been on my mind for eons, and I would really like to make it happen someday. It's such stupid idea, though, that it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of money on it. Thus the Challenge budget. It's not a Challenge natural, just something I want to do. It already has a live rear axle, so some of the work is already done. I think I have room to re-mount the fuel tank behind the axle to help with weight dist. The bad thing about this idea (ok, one of the bad things) is the tiny cab. If I set the engine back very far, a manual shifter will be in the bed of the pickup.

I read last night that a Miata gains 2-300 lbs during a V8 transfusion. I figure I have that plus the rear diff, drive shaft, and all kinds of extra metal in the front end. Add that and a 200 lb driver to a 2000 lb vehicle. I feel like any swap should be well north of 200 hp to be under consideration.

If money weren't a factor, I could mix and match engines, transmissions, bellhousings, computers, turbos, etc. and make the ultimate setup. But to make the budget work, most of the parts should probably come from one car. A 5.0 from a Mustang might work if I could make it fit, but stock engines are mostly pretty pathetic.

Are there RWD manifolds for the supercharged 3800? Do you need an exotic clutch to fit the Camaro trans to it?

How much CHEAP power will a turbo dodge make? (I miss you, bc.) What clutch do you use with the Dakota trans?

How much CHEAP power will a Ford 2.3 Turbo make? The 190hp SVO is already running 15psi.

How much is a 2nd gen RX7 turbo? How much CHEAP power will it make?

And so on.

Cheap power F2T:

http://www.mx6.com/forums/1g-mx6-forced-induction/228923-f2t-hp-torque-record-broken.html

347whp/459wtq.

Stock motor. Injectors, FMIC, megasquirt, 50trim, and a dinky too-small 2.5" exhaust.

Done.

It's pretty easy to approach 300whp and a metric buttload of torque using stock electronics. Upper 200s and over 300wtq possible with a tbird hybrid turbo, stock electronics, and a 5th injector setup.

28" is very optimistic in a caddy.

Starting with the obvious, what are you going to use for front and rear suspensions?

I will suggest Miata, mostly because you can use OE wheels and look nearly stock.

I would also suggest 12a rotary because they are very short and will not break the Miata rear. Also they are awesome loud fun.

Miata suspension also makes sense to me. Was done successfully with a Datsun pickup.

http://community.ratsun.net/topic/7446-project-mx520-top-secret/

The Ford 2.3 turbo (Lima) is as heavy as a 5.0L with aluminum heads. IMHO, it is not worth swapping into a vehicle that didn't come with a 2.3. My Pintos were 2.3T-powered, but they already came with the 2.3 starting in '74. Same with the 2.2/2.5 Chryslers. I love them to death, but would find a lighter alternative if the vehicle didn't already come with a 2.2/2.5 Chrysler. I am gathering parts now to convert my '90 Plymouth Voyager turbo to a 4G63. I am still leaning toward the 4G63 for the power/weight. Even though you have to find a few parts, the parts are easy to find. Yes, Reverend Dexter is right. But I don't think I have ever seen a W-50-series trans. that didn't have a removeable bellhousing. Toyota also put a W-59 trans. behind the N/A 6-cylinder in the Supras. Quite honestly, if you were planning on going with a V8, you might as well go with a SBC. They are wider than a SBF due to deck height, but there are tons of used performance parts out there, they make great power, and there is also a lot of aftermarket support. I can't say that for the 2.3T, 2.2/2.5T, or some of the foreign cars.

-Les

John Brown wrote: 28" is very optimistic in a caddy. Starting with the obvious, what are you going to use for front and rear suspensions? I will suggest Miata, mostly because you can use OE wheels and look nearly stock. I would also suggest 12a rotary because they are very short and will not break the Miata rear. Also they are awesome loud fun.

Yes, 28" is really pushing it. That's about the distance from the firewall to the just aft of the hood latch. I'd have to lose the rain tray, cut a gaping hole in the firewall and get super creative with the cooling system.

Suspension would stay stock, I think. I'd put a straight axle with a pumpkin in the back. The front could stay stock, or not. I'd just need to put a gutted outer CV joint in each wheel to keep the bearings from falling out.

I haven't been considering NA rotaries. Too expensive to make power, and no powerband once you do. It would be the ideal size, though. At one time I had the rear axle and floor pan of a 1st gen RX7 sitting on my garage floor for this sort of mischief.

GSXR 750 or 1000

No reverse, but who needs it?

YouTube Hayabusa Turbo Mk1 Golf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xdks-j3yt0&feature=related

I want to do this in a 95 or newer Metro hatch and think about it waay too much

John Brown wrote: I will suggest Miata, mostly because you can use OE wheels and look nearly stock.

Is there a way to get that bolt pattern on an RX7 rear end?

Put it in the bed, behind the driver. Get any front drive powertrain complete and make it a middy. My choice would be any of the ZQ series Nissan motors from a Maxima or Altima, but whatever floats your boat. Use the front end for the fuel cell and battery and junk. It's probably simpler than you think, and certainly cheaper.

I ALWAYS wanted one of those, by the way, but not for any rational reason.

Tangent - the W50 in my '77 Celica was a non-removable bellhousing.

Just for the dimensions, I'd be looking at pushrod V6. I'm sure you can find a Vortech 4.3L for fairly cheap.

Amen to mid-engined truck conversions. Easy to work on, too. :-)

I like to keep it all in the family, so I would vote for the VW turbo motor (1.8 or 2.0).

David

tuna55 wrote: I ALWAYS wanted one of those, by the way, but not for any rational reason.

The smart thing to do with one, IMHO, is to swap in a 2.0 8v. I had one (and will again soon) that I LOVED. A Rabbit is a wonderful car to drive. A Rabbit with some power is better. A Rabbit that can haul around engines, small motorcycles, scrap metal and large TVs is annoying. Because people borrow it all the time.

If I install a FWD drivetrain in the back, it won't be a pickup anymore. Where's the fun in that?

AMF, there is one flaw in your plan. your rack and pinion and suspension cradle will be removed in order to put a longitudinal engine under the hood and floor.

John Brown wrote: AMF, there is one flaw in your plan. your rack and pinion and suspension cradle will be removed in order to put a longitudinal engine under the hood and floor.

Right. Forgot about that. I was thinking maybe Audi or VW Fox front struts and steering rack.

Or mount the rack under the trans, use A2 spindles and flip the tie rods?

5 years ago you about had me convinced to do the Buick V6/Camaro trans thing. It's looking pretty good.

I still think that is the best combination for you.

Fbody 3.8L stick + Miata drivetrain components + Scirocco radiator and fans

944 or 924 donor.