Chance to relive my youth, or just a huge money suck?

So the first "real" car I bought was a 1991 VW GTi 16v. One of the rare 2 liter ones with the recaro interior, BBS wheels, etc.

I owned it for 8 years, did tons of mods to it, including putting a Corrado G60 motor in it. Sold it when it had tons of miles on it.

Always had a soft spot for those cars and they're getting thin on the ground now.

One popped up locally a few months ago, I looked into it briefly put passed as I was getting weird responses from the owner to my questions.

I kinda regretted passing on it but that may be because I don't currently have a wrenching project to occupy myself with.

Well, it just popped up for sale on Craigslist again. Oddly enough, everytime he posts it, it's with a higher price.

Pros: Real 2l 16v GTI with the "big" power recaros, red stripe dash, so mild mods

Cons: No service history, no rust but needs paint/body

I'm a reasonable wrench but I know bupkis about paint/body. That'll mean a trip to my friends body shop for dent/ding repair and a full body respray, so probably around $5000.

For the cash the seller wants plus just the cost of paint/body work I can probably wait and buy one that's in pristine shape for either the same amount or even less....

Thoughts?

It's always cheaper to buy a good one. I know from painful and expensive personal experience. Just how rare are these? What are your chances of funding a pristine one?

Unless you can live with the paint, or have the knowledge to do it yourself. Wait. If you're willing to plop down $5,000 on paint, use that to get a cream puff. Good, original paint is superior in my book.

I love these. I also had a 16v but the older 1.8 ones, it was an '87. I knew the Techtonics catalog inside out.

I am constantly looking for a 2l and like you say, they are hard to find. I would wait for the "right" car. This does not sound like the right car to me.

I think those guys ^^^^ are right. But it sounds like maybe it's time to start properly looking. They're out there, but not getting any more common, and it sounds like you're ready. Waiting to stumble onto one on local CL is... a good savings plan but not such a good one for acquisition?

VW imported something like 700 of these combined for 1991, 1992. So they were hard to find new and even harder to find now.

Many have been scrapped, crashed, VR6 engine swapped etc. It's getting hard to find one period, let alone a nice one.

First time I saw this one posted asking price was $2800, second time it was $3200, now its $3600.

Even if I get it for $2800, that plus $5000 for body/paint is almost $8000. There will be some other things it needs I'm sure, so it's quite possible that all in I could be at $10,000.

$10,000 will easily buy a super clean, well built, needing practically nothing example, as long as I'm patient.

I supposed I'd be more hot on this one if it still had the original BBS RM wheels, which are practically impossible to find used. It does have the incredibly rare factory cruise control option though.

Dunno, I may feel the guy out, if I can get the car for Challenge pricing it may be worth it.

I'd suggest to go look at it. Sometimes it can be enlightening to see if nostalgia for a past car glosses over some of the reasons you sold it in the first place.

At the end of my street is a '91 Acura Integra for sale. Pretty much exactly like the one I owned 15 years ago - black 2-door with tan leather interior. A car I regret selling (actually trading in). Seeing it all the time makes me wax nostalgic about my old one - a car I beat on mercilessly for 8 years. By the time I got rid of it, the engine still ran well, but the rest of the car was falling apart. The one for sale "looks" ok with a poorly prepped respray, but I hesitate to think which of the now hard-to-find bits will fail next. That, and they want $4000 for the car, which I consider insane.

Promise not to swap the 9A out of this one if you get it. I think I might have a 50mm euro intake manifold laying around.

True. I'm sure I'll find the driving experience underwhelming. They weren't power houses new (134hp!) and between age and the 18% hit in power due to altitude it feel sluggish.

Doesn't help my daily driver is a 550hp Cayenne Turbo that tends to make everything feel sluggish, including my 280hp M3 track car.

captdownshift, if I get this car my goal would be to keep it OEM+. So some period mods but OEM motor, trans, etc...

Id buy something with rough paint over something with a respray covering up who knows what kind of evil....

Texted the guy, he's only owned it a few months, so bought it the last time it popped up on Craigslist. No service records and hasn't done anything to it but the heater core. Hasn't replaced the timing belt.

Isn't willing to deal on the price, probably because he just bought it, paid tax and replaced the heater core. He's looking to get all his cash back out of it.

Personally I don't think it's worth the $3600 he's asking. I think its more of a $2000 car in its current shape. So looks like I'll be passing on it once again...

Sounds like you made the right choice.

In any case, how are you going to know anything about paint and bodywork if you keep waiting to buy pristine cars?

It's not a 60's Ferrari so maybe you can learn on a car that needs so exterior attention.

docwyte wrote: True. I'm sure I'll find the driving experience underwhelming. They weren't power houses new (134hp!) and between age and the 18% hit in power due to altitude it feel sluggish. Doesn't help my daily driver is a 550hp Cayenne Turbo that tends to make everything feel sluggish, including my 280hp M3 track car.

Huh? Wait a minute! So you are driving around in a mighty Cayenne Turbo and you have an M3 track car, and you are wondering if you should buy some humble old GTI that has been bouncing around Craigslist? That would be like moving back into a tiny apartment with an unpleasant room mate, just for old time's sake.

I'm a wierd one. I like saving failing vehicles. Besides, if you've fixed something, you know it's real condition and what it needs. It may be cheaper up front but after a few years, it usually evens out. Plus you'll have saved a car and that'll give you good feelings.

Danny, same could be said for all the baby boomers buying up the '60's muscle cars. They drive like complete crap!

How about the early '70's 911's? Again, a very underwhelming driving experience.

Mark, I agree but the entry price has to make sense. At $3600 it's too much money for me to buy it. For $2000-2500 I'd probably take the chance and go pick it up.

I know the original thread topic is sort of closed, but I'll throw in my opinion on buying a car that needs paint:

If you know you can get quality work done because you personally know some paint/body people and can testify to the quality of their work, i wouldn't hesitate to buy a cosmetically rough car and have it done up. In my opinion, a fresh paint job with GOOD quality work is going to be BETTER than 'pretty darn good' original paint in most of the ways you're going to care about.

We've already covered that sometimes nostalgia is nonsensical. We already know that at this moment, even a survivor-car of that make/model is not worth terribly much, and poorer examples are in real peril of being parted/scrapped. I would NOT turn my nose up at a car with 'aftermarket' paintwork that was not only 'saved' from the peril of the scrapheap by that investment, but is also probably more likely to tickle that nonsensical nostalgic fondness when its bright and shininess first appears when you walk out the door in the morning, than an original car with 'really pretty good' original paint. My .02

Sounds like a car for job for Earl Scheib.

I have a completely stock '91 16v GTI in the garage. Paint's not good, but it's only got 55K on it. Only 700 imported you say?

Busted GTI heater core brings back memories.. mine was an 86, 8valve. Techtonics cat-back exhaust.

Bought used, my 2nd car. Made finance payments for 2 years then continued making $2-300 payments to repair broken E36 M3 every month until I sold it...

My last VW.

When I have these thoughts and want to look at a car I bring along a friend with no vested interest to dope slap me if it's not a good idea. So far so good.

Based on A1 GTI values, I expect prices on the A2 will continue to climb somewhat. At least unless/until the economy takes a major E36 M3. I don't expect prices will ever surpass comparable A1 cars, but they'll probably be close.

docwyte wrote: Danny, same could be said for all the baby boomers buying up the '60's muscle cars. They drive like complete crap! How about the early '70's 911's? Again, a very underwhelming driving experience.

You are right, newer cars are of course better in every measurable way, but we can get a lot of enjoyment out of the simplicity and character of an older car, whether it is a Porsche, a muscle car, a little British car, a Model A or a VW, whatever makes you smile.

My primary car obsession is the 190E 2.3-16 Cosworth. I've got two at the moment. Prices keep going up and condition seems to get worse and worse.

That's the problem with cool "peformance" cars that were forgotten for a time: they got cheap. That means they fell into the hands of stupid kids who ran them into the ground, wrecked them, and/or modded them in sketchy (and embarrassing) ways. Now, you've got to pay to undo all that neglect and abuse.

Sounds like the 2.0L GTI you're after is in the same boat. If they really only imported 700, what are the chances you'll ever find a really good one? May have to take what you can get.