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racerdave600
racerdave600 Dork
5/8/13 9:52 a.m.
GameboyRMH wrote: The problem really comes down to unlimited greed. In the early days of TV it was broadcast for free and then ads paid for it, then subscription fees came in, then pay per view, now product placement and content dilution (making shows painfully slow-paced and reusing content to lower production costs)...there's no point where they'll make "enough" money from a show.

Not trying to be rude, but you have zero idea about what you are talking about. In the early days of TV, you had a few channels and huge viewerships. You could charge big bucks for the ads that you could place as you had a captive audience and advertisers willing to pay to reach them. Except for the Superbowl and a few high rated shows on network, those days are LOOOONNNG gone. In fact, the days of networks paying you a fee to broadcast your program are in many cases gone as well. There are so many channels and the other advertising avenues that TV is not what it once was.

To make matters worse, networks no longer provide the production facilities and manpower to most shows that they air, especially non-broadcast networks. And in many cases, you MUST purchase the air time as well. Now, add to this that the commercial revenue also goes to the network, and the show itself is left with little ability to create revenue of it's own. That's where product placement comes in. It's one of the few areas you have absolute control over these days.

Let me make this a bit clearer. If you want to advertise on the say the Big Bang Theory, you're probably going to spend several hundred thousand for a 30 second spot. If you want to advertise on Wayne's show, it may cost you 10 bucks. Don't believe me, call your local cable company and ask. The national commercials are most likely network commercials where they have a contract, and probably command more, but it is highly doubtful Wayne and his crew see any of that, or if they do, it won't be much. Even so, it's probably not a lot even to the network. You pay by how many viewers you reach, and shows like this regrettably don't pull huge numbers, so advertising is cheap.

Making money in TV is a tough situation these days, and if you think it's greed, you are sadly mistaken. It's difficult for networks and TV shows. At one point we had 18 shows of different types. We even looked at producing an auto related show and placing it on Speed or Discovery, and we saw no real way to make it profitable, or for that matter, even difficult to break even. You need to use it as a marketing tool and consider it a loss. Think about what's out there. You have Barry Maguire promoting his products, Wayne promoting his shop, Foose promoting his shop, etc., etc.

Before you start throwing out the ever popular "greed" tag, you need to understand what you are talking about, and be grateful that they are finding a way to at least stay on the air.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg UltimaDork
5/8/13 10:13 a.m.

Next thing they will be advertising on racing cars, how uncouth.

Oh wait, um err.

Back to your regular program

Billy_Bottle_Caps
Billy_Bottle_Caps HalfDork
5/8/13 11:04 a.m.

In reply to BoxheadTim:

I think it was way over the top as well

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory HalfDork
5/8/13 12:50 p.m.

I had a small business for 15 years. One-on-one (or two at the most) service related industry. Aquaintences that I helped get rolling doing the same service "sold out" and started to work with groups of people in an industry that really suffers in that group setting but the cash came rolling in. Didn't matter that the content E36 M3'd the bed and that the lack of individualized attention created several injuries to occur. The money was too good to turn back now. Meanwhile I kept chugging along actually giving my best to my clientele and broke even most years.

Bottom line: when money talks, content and quality walks. I don't really care why or how hard it is to make a buck. The truth is staring you in the face.

forzav12
forzav12 HalfDork
5/8/13 3:33 p.m.

Carini may yak about "the chase', but it always comes down to money and getting a slice of auction proceeds,etc. Some of the guys he pals around with on the show are so pompous that its hardly watchable.

I much prefer Foose and his crew(goofy stunts and antics, included). he is a genuinely good guy, works to a very high standard-the real deal. Was walking our local swap meet a few weeks ago and found myself next to Chip-also out early, no entourage and rummaging through the junk with the rest of us. Every now and then someone would recognize him and want a picture or autograph-he was friendly and agreed to every request. Also asked how folks were doing, thanked them for the positive comments about his work and even asked about their projects.

As to the advertising and product placement? Who cares, if that allows the show to continue. GRM is packed full of ads-doesn't stop me from subscribing.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim GRM+ Memberand PowerDork
5/8/13 3:36 p.m.
forzav12 wrote: As to the advertising and product placement? Who cares, if that allows the show to continue. GRM is packed full of ads-doesn't stop me from subscribing.

There's a big difference between ads (which nobody has a problem with) and the product placement/advertorial side of things that is masquerading as content. It's the latter that I find annoying.

dean1484
dean1484 GRM+ Memberand UberDork
5/8/13 3:53 p.m.
BoxheadTim wrote: There's a big difference between ads (which nobody has a problem with) and the product placement/advertorial side of things that is masquerading as content. It's the latter that I find annoying.

This was my problem with CCC last night.

One of the things I liked about CCC was that they did have product placement but it was not annoying. WD40 and Marvel Mystery Oil have been floating around there for a while. The haggerty on line car value thing looks cool and has been used a bunch of times on the show. But again it was not really intrusive and was interesting and actually was being used as part of what the host was doing. However last nights autogeek crap was just annoying and dropped CCC back into the bucket of steaming crap where many (if not all) all the other car shows reside.

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
5/8/13 4:22 p.m.
forzav12 wrote: Carini may yak about "the chase', but it always comes down to money and getting a slice of auction proceeds,etc. Some of the guys he pals around with on the show are so pompous that its hardly watchable. I much prefer Foose and his crew(goofy stunts and antics, included). he is a genuinely good guy, works to a very high standard-the real deal. Was walking our local swap meet a few weeks ago and found myself next to Chip-also out early, no entourage and rummaging through the junk with the rest of us. Every now and then someone would recognize him and want a picture or autograph-he was friendly and agreed to every request. Also asked how folks were doing, thanked them for the positive comments about his work and even asked about their projects. As to the advertising and product placement? Who cares, if that allows the show to continue. GRM is packed full of ads-doesn't stop me from subscribing.

Yes, some of the guys Wayne deals with on CCC are pompous, but the half a dozen times I've met Wayne, he's been very nice, and approachable. He's a pro, who knows his business very well. He's also a total car guy with a true love for machinery. Unfortunately he doesn't come across as well on TV as he does in person. That said, he is the "real deal" and isn't a TV poser like many hosts.

And I totally agree that Foose deserves the respect he gets. I don't really enjoy his TV show very much, but in person he's always polite, humble and really nice. He also obviously has loads and loads of talent.

Producing a profitable TV show isn't easy. What appeals to the broad market, turns the fringe enthusiast off, and vice versa. It isn't an easy balancing act.

but yeah....I found the Autogeek infomercial annoying

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UberDork
5/8/13 4:34 p.m.

Well I recorded it last night so I will get to see what all the hoopla is about tonight.

nepa03focus
nepa03focus Reader
5/8/13 4:52 p.m.
ArthurDent wrote:
nepa03focus wrote: Hawaii five-o is the worst show ever about this lol. It's like a one hour Chevy commercial with subway and other stuff thrown in. And American pickers is bad sometimes too.
The bad guys usually drive Ford too

Exactly!! And the camaro always is faster and catches it.

ddavidv
ddavidv PowerDork
5/9/13 5:47 a.m.

I'm a fan of Morgan Spurlock. He made a movie totally pre-paid by product placement...a documentary about product placement. It's not as funny as some of his other projects, but still amusing.

There is no greater car show shill than Dennis Gage. As barely tolerable as he is on-screen, I could at least enjoy his show because it showcased cool cars. It has, for several years, been completely unwatchable for me.

Same thing with Two Guys Garage...I'm talking years ago when the two hosts (who couldn't stop calling each other "buddy" and "pal") worked in what appeared to be a backyard garage. Extremely educational. And then it wound up as a regular show on SPEED aka Fox NA$CAR channel it went to hell with product placements and eventually younger, 'hipper' hosts.

As bad of a rap as you guys give Graveyard Carz, at least the commercialism is bearable. A Monster energy logo or can in every 4th shot just makes for a fun drinking game.

N Sperlo
N Sperlo UltimaDork
5/9/13 6:18 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I keep waiting for someone to parody the product placement stuff in a subtle way like leaving Bud cans around in the background of a Game of Thrones episode or putting Ford badges on the Starship Enterprise.

Does having a Busch count if I'm on camera during my show? Maybe I should ask them for cash....

Feedyurhed
Feedyurhed Dork
5/9/13 7:24 a.m.

And since we are on the topic of advertising..............who can remember when cable TV first came out and didn't(mostly) have any ads? That was the reason you paid a cable fee so you wouldn't have to watch advertisements. OMG now? You get five minutes of ads for every five minutes of show. Especially stations like TBS, WGN, TV Land. So aren't we lucky? We get to pay AND see ads AND have promotions during the actual show.

novaderrik
novaderrik UberDork
5/9/13 7:26 a.m.
GameboyRMH wrote:
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I keep waiting for someone to parody the product placement stuff in a subtle way like leaving Bud cans around in the background of a Game of Thrones episode or putting Ford badges on the Starship Enterprise.
ATHF has done something like this...well it was actually product placement but at the same time they were parodying the obnoxiousness of product placement.

where ya at, dawg?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oQG0lD43Ys

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
5/9/13 7:35 a.m.
N Sperlo wrote: Does having a Busch count if I'm on camera during my show? Maybe I should ask them for cash....

You should ask them for cash - they should be paying people to drink that swill.

JoeyM
JoeyM MegaDork
5/9/13 7:38 a.m.
fasted58 wrote: GRM needs a TV car program

It would be great, but you can't attract advertisers if your whole point is "you can make that for pennies on the dollar instead of buying it"

FWIW, I wish that MetalChurch had gotten turned into a TV program....I'd watch that....heck, I'd buy the DVDs

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UberDork
5/9/13 7:47 a.m.

I watched the CCC episdoes last night. They are just burying a commercial in the show. First time I didn't think it was so bad. I won't want to see them every show. But that's not nearly as bad as Dennis Gage hawking battery tenders every other flippin show.

nderwater
nderwater UberDork
5/9/13 8:11 a.m.
BoxheadTim wrote: I watched the two episodes last night and I was also taken aback by the blatant infomercial type stuff. I think they got that really wrong - if they'd taken a bit more care to not make it quite that blatant/disruptive then I would have found it a lot less annoying, too. OK, so Wayne is never going to have a second career as a TV pitch man but boy was that grating.

My wife was half-watching the show from the dining room and even she commented on it.

whenry
whenry HalfDork
5/9/13 8:13 a.m.

At least it is shows that are car oriented and you can stand to watch. Just think what are your other alternatives. The producers try to make drama out of every event: Honey Boo Boo, Swamp People, Duck Dynasty, etc etc. Reality shows are cheaper to produce than real shows and the infomercial shows pay for themselves.

BTW they used to tape and produce Two Guys Garage in Knoxville and in the early days, they were always willing to do a story on race and other interesting cars. Then the show had to pay for itself and the lowest common denominator took effect.

Rusted_Busted_Spit
Rusted_Busted_Spit GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
5/9/13 8:50 a.m.

I will give CCC a few more episodes but it really grated on my as well. On the other hand 5th Gear is turning into one of my favorite car shown.

beans
beans New Reader
5/9/13 11:42 a.m.

Wheeler Dealers. I don't think I've ever seen any sort of product placement on that show, even if it's kinda goofy/Brit quirky.

spitfirebill
spitfirebill UberDork
5/9/13 12:00 p.m.
beans wrote: Wheeler Dealers. I don't think I've ever seen any sort of product placement on that show, even if it's kinda goofy/Brit quirky.

One word, BBC

old_
old_ New Reader
5/9/13 12:06 p.m.

There is a plugin for firefox and chrome (maybe others as well) called adblock. It blocks advertisement banners on websites and advertisements on youtube and most other video streaming sites. It is fantastic.

Josh
Josh SuperDork
5/9/13 7:30 p.m.
beans wrote: Wheeler Dealers. I don't think I've ever seen any sort of product placement on that show, even if it's kinda goofy/Brit quirky.

That's because there's no reason for ads, because it's paid for with public money ZOMG COMMUNISM!!!

LainfordExpress
LainfordExpress HalfDork
5/9/13 7:49 p.m.

Your only recourse is where you spend your money, but if you stop watching or stop patronizing their sponsors, the show will go away. And you'll be saddled with another half-an-hour of extended coverage of the Belgian NASCAR Under-2-Liter Series for Brunette Women, where all the talk will be about how talented Danica Patrick is, despite that when she raced in the series for four years SHE NEVER WON A RACE.

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