pres589 wrote: In reply to Ranger50: What is this magical $350 bellhousing that mates to many sorts of transmissions?
Hear hear. I'm curious too. I'd love to know a way to bolt up an LS series motor to a ZF6 transmission that doesn't involve a new ZR1 input shaft.
trans/bellhousing adapter guide
A handy guide from our 4x4 engine swapping friends. Didn't see anything on the ZF6 though.
Um, the bolt pattern on the LS1 is the same as the old-school SBC, just without one bolt. The real issue isn't bolting stuff up to it, it's that the end of the crank doesn't stick out as far as on the old-school SBC by about 3/8".
Depending on your tranny choice, you can usually make up the difference in an auto with a spacer and in a manual with an extended pilot bearing. Obviously some combos won't work, but it's not impossible to get most swaps done with a GRM budget.
Do yourself a favor and order just the manifold from Edelbrock and the ignition computer from MSD for an LSx motor. Saves you $100 over the Edelbrock "kit" and gets you a programmable MSD box instead of one with too much advance fixed in.
Sounds like a $350 magic bellhousing would be great if it fixes both the missing bolt issue and the depth change.
I see they had a price increase, bastards. They used to be $350, now they are $500. 
http://www.quicktimeinc.com/products.html
Brian
oldopelguy wrote: Um, the bolt pattern on the LS1 is the same as the old-school SBC, just without one bolt. The real issue isn't bolting stuff up to it, it's that the end of the crank doesn't stick out as far as on the old-school SBC by about 3/8". Depending on your tranny choice, you can usually make up the difference in an auto with a spacer and in a manual with an extended pilot bearing. Obviously some combos won't work, but it's not impossible to get most swaps done with a GRM budget. INTERESTING. I have to be careful what I read on teh interwebz forums. Do yourself a favor and order just the manifold from Edelbrock and the ignition computer from MSD for an LSx motor. Saves you $100 over the Edelbrock "kit" and gets you a programmable MSD box instead of one with too much advance fixed in.
Without wanting to stray too far OT. I'd like to hear more. The Corvette guys seem to think it's not a worthwhile pursuit, or pretty difficult: they usually say to use the T56.
ZFdoc documents using an LS1 T56 bellhousing, longer (ZR1) input shaft, and ~1.7" adapter between the bellhousing and the trans. The ZF uses a pull style clutch, FWIW.
Can I then use a SBC flywheel with the LS1 starter setup? Perhaps a 3/8" longer throwout bearing?
Very interesting. I'm installing a $375 LT1 to get the C4 back on the road, but love the Idea of an LS variant.
Edit: http://www.crateenginedepot.com/store/product2.aspx?UserID=11484746&SessionID=YXZUuWoOU8A8BYZ9iTZ6&Product_ID=1343 Also, it seems some LS variants had a thick flange crank: no spacer needed?
In reply to njansenv:
I think the reason they stay away from the ZF is all the issues people had with ZFs.
You would want to use an LSx flywheel with the LSx engine, the bolt patterns are different. Use the 4.8L truck one (two variants, in 2000 they changed the length of the crank slightly and starters won't engage if you mix/match) for a thicker flywheel if you need to space the clutch back on the input splines, or use the Vette/F-body one if you want lighter and it not being as thick is OK. Clutch pressure plate would have to match the flywheel and clutch disc the transmission.
I think the hardest part is actually measuring the input shaft length of the tranny you have, and the bell housing depth, and seeing if where the end of the shaft sticks out is enough to safely engage the end of the crank. With so many variables in length from cars, trucks, vettes, diesels, etc. there's not going to be a well documented formula out there. I could go measure the ZF I have in storage, but if it's not the same as yours then what good does it do you?
My personal application has a 4.8L bolted up to a 4.3L S10 trans with an F-body flywheel and 1/2 ton clutch disc. I used an extended pilot bushing though it really didn't seem to need it because there was room. Everything seems to work fine, though I may have to toss a couple of washers in behind the internal clutch cylinder to space it closer to the block, and I won't know for sure until I get fluid to it.
Oh, and you'll never get that 6th bolt, drilling into the block there would put you into a combustion chamber. The mounting surface on the back of the block is closer to the cylinders on the LSx motors because they don't need space for a distributor or oil pump drive. Five bolts is plenty, though, it's all they LSx motors come with.
In reply to Ranger50:
You can use the GM truck bellhousing (460486) plus the Novak bushing (BR-4) and front cover plate for a low buck solution to hook a GM T-5 (WC unit from 88-96) to a LSx motor.
Here's one way:
oldopelguy wrote: In reply to njansenv: I think the reason they stay away from the ZF is all the issues people had with ZFs. You would want to use an LSx flywheel with the LSx engine, the bolt patterns are different. Use the 4.8L truck one (two variants, in 2000 they changed the length of the crank slightly and starters won't engage if you mix/match) for a thicker flywheel if you need to space the clutch back on the input splines, or use the Vette/F-body one if you want lighter and it not being as thick is OK. Clutch pressure plate would have to match the flywheel and clutch disc the transmission. I think the hardest part is actually measuring the input shaft length of the tranny you have, and the bell housing depth, and seeing if where the end of the shaft sticks out is enough to safely engage the end of the crank. With so many variables in length from cars, trucks, vettes, diesels, etc. there's not going to be a well documented formula out there. I could go measure the ZF I have in storage, but if it's not the same as yours then what good does it do you? My personal application has a 4.8L bolted up to a 4.3L S10 trans with an F-body flywheel and 1/2 ton clutch disc. I used an extended pilot bushing though it really didn't seem to need it because there was room. Everything seems to work fine, though I may have to toss a couple of washers in behind the internal clutch cylinder to space it closer to the block, and I won't know for sure until I get fluid to it. Oh, and you'll never get that 6th bolt, drilling into the block there would put you into a combustion chamber. The mounting surface on the back of the block is closer to the cylinders on the LSx motors because they don't need space for a distributor or oil pump drive. Five bolts is plenty, though, it's all they LSx motors come with.
Isn't the LSx flywheel a larger diameter flywheel? The ZF bellhousing is pretty tight around the 152 tooth LT1 flywheel. Aside from noise, what issues did people have with ZF transmissions? They seem pretty robust.
Yup. The LSx flywheel is 14" (168 tooth).
does the lsx even get as low as 400 pounds full acc? because thats more my beef. the mazda bpt is another thought i've had but i dont know how cheap those are i know they hold to 350 with no internal mods though.
i think if the engine takes 1600 or less to get there its cheap i have a built 360 vortec motor that is about 350/350 but weighs about 580 poundsish. thats the prob really wieght and i actually dont want much for tq. the car weighs nothing.
hmmm...
njansenv wrote: The ZF uses a pull style clutch, FWIW.
Is it the same or different species as the pull clutch with a T56?
For shear size and weight, one recommendation I would make as to transmissions is to consider the Novak or Advance Adapters bell-housings that adapt an SBC to an AX-15 transmission. Using that bell will let you bolt up various Toyota transmissions, like ones from Supras. There are a slew of input shaft lengths on the various versions of the transmissions that share that front bolt pattern, and the body size for most is overall smaller than most of the GM stuff out there. The majority of the transmissions weigh a lot less as well. There are several threads out there on various forums, including this one, going into the options, and I would not hesitate to run a Supra 5 speed behind an LSx motor for anything but a heavy drag-only car.
Too bad a S/C 3800 series wouldn't do, they're around the right weight and cheap, though not necessarily the best pick, I just really like the power delivery of those motors...
Right now we are sort of looking at similiar swap into a Volvo... from all the reading I've done, 350hp should be quite attainable for stupid cheap. IF your budget isn't quite limited, name brand stroker kits are around ~$1000. A 347 with GT40 heads and a cam would get you awefully close to 350hp at the crank I'd think.
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