Civic Sidan vs. Mazdaspeed 3 vs. GTI

After much consideration I've decided that the sport/lux cars I've been looking at my be a little too maintenance intensive and may send the wrong message to my customers. Also, after trying out some "grand touring" class cars I've decided that I still prefer the raw and vastly more fun driving experience offered by sport compact cars. The around $20k range buys any of the title cars with less than 10k miles as opposed to the 80-100k mile premium cars I was looking at for that sum. Prices only go down from there.

Requirements: No silver cars. DD, around 20-30k miles a year, occasional autoX and track days, usable back seats.

Civic Si Sedan: Pros - Honda reliability, best gas mileage of the three, most "connected" driving experience and best ride quality, highest residual value Cons- WAYYY down on power compared to the other two, most expensive used, highest insurance costs, goofy spaceship dash layout, it'll eventually get stolen...

Mazdaspeed 3: Pros - Most fun gearing, best looks IMO, awesome power and mod potential, most fun to drive, practical wagon body, re-flashes fix the puke-and-die powerband. Cons - Seems like they're all red. Ugh.

VW GTI 5 door: Pros - DSG trans is totally awesome, best interior, huge mod potential and lots of re-flashes to choose from, I like plaid seats, most "solid" feeling of the group, drives like a vastly more expensive car. Cons - VW reliability, too many silver/gray cars, I'll have to get into stretched tires and rusted hoods...

I've driven and would probably be happy with all three. If I could get the DSG in the mazda I'd be in heaven. I may go with the VW just to get that transmission.

I looked at the Cobalt SS/turbo and it isn't even in the running. They're desperately cheap used and quite fast but I just can't get excited about them.

I haven't looked at the Caliber SRT4 but I seriously doubt I'd like it.

Which one would you buy?

Gti, only because my job involves Volkswagens on a daily basis. If you are looking at the 09 GTI, you would have to wait for a flash from Revo, the company I work for, still researching and devolping the software to sync up with the ECU. But when it does, HOLD ON TO YOUR SOCKS!!!

MS3. No question for me.

I prefer the looks and the MZR is just plain great. There's even one on the cover of the latest GRM.

Does it have to been new? With $20,000 there's alot of options: Integra Type R - prices from low miles to 50,000 miles are in the $10,000-15,000 range now. Subaru WRX Subaru STi Mitsubishi Evo 8 & 9 Lexus IS300

You could buy My 08 GTI, Black 5 door DSG with Plaid interior, heated seats and sunroof. I was facing the same decision as you and picked up the GTI. I get ~30mpg average out of it, and the build quality is very good. The MS3 was nice, but the whole car feels like where did my 24K go? where the GTI feels like, how did they do all this for 24K. The civic SI is a sedan.. So it low on the list, add to that the HORRID E-brake placement and I was frustrated. And the DSG is AWSOME. Mine has 24K trouble free problems, and My co-worker has an 06 with 65K on it that has been to the dealer once for a passenger airbag harness (apparently comon on the 06's).

You weiner! M5 or bust!

'Zuk SX4 with the RRM Turbo kit and suspension package. 230hp, AWD, good mileage and good handler. All for about $20k new.

I'd have to to with the MazdaSpeed3. I haven't seen too many red ones for sale when I have looked. It would be hard to live with the potential VW mechanical quirks on a DD type car unless you are that in love with how it drives.

I don't think this is a choice we can answer for you.

I am always gunshy about used turbo cars. Especially cheaper import turbo cars. Ones that would likely have the smnot beat out of them by kids and not have the proper maintenance done. And the Si Sedan is just gutless. So if used s the only option can we select "D: None of the above?"

for the amount of money you are looking at.. you can pick up a small engined e46 without a lot of miles, a saab turbo (or v6) any number of volvos....

mad_machine wrote: for the amount of money you are looking at.. you can pick up a small engined e46 without a lot of miles, a saab turbo (or v6) any number of volvos....

I'd look at an e46 too. In fact, I drive one.

Search for a 330i sedan with the ZHP package. Here's one for $17,500.

330i ZHP sedan

If it were me, I might get a new Cobalt SS 4 door (with the turbo motor). Yeh, the interior sucks but it does have Recaro seats and it's about 100 lbs lighter than the MS3. The first two times I drove an MS3 I loved it, but I just drove another at the last autocross and it felt soft and heavy. Haven't driven a Cobalt yet, so I'll reserve final judgement until I do.

i would, and did go with the MS3.

MS3 all the way.

Well maybe not all the way. Used WRX's and Neon SRT4's are in that range.

But then I'd still buy the MS3.

HAving been through a similar decision myself last year the choice was simple

Volvo C30

Wins the daily driver part hands down and is still fun on the track and autocross.

Adrian

Insurance-wise...is there REALLY any difference among these 3 cars? And all 3 could be considered more theft-prone than the "average" sedan.

Having said that, I'll never trust VW's build quality, or lack thereof, and having owned 3 Honda products....they are competent, but not as involving as a Mazda..

As an MS3 owner I can give you my pros and cons...and the "pros" vastly outweigh the "cons" in my book.

"Pros"

Torque till the cows come home - not much lag and punch in the gut at 3500ish; Steering feel is good, sharp and "point-and-shoot" quick; Responds well to easy mods like intake (20hp) and turbo inlet; Cobb Accessport unlocks even more power. Safely.; A BEAST in the twisties; Best braking in the game IMHO; Room for the kid's carseats or two grown adults in the back

"Cons"

Car won't pull till redline on a stock ECU map and 1st/2nd gear are governed by ECU to prevent wheelspin of all things; Torque steer is prevalent (a stiffer rear motor mount fixed mine); Heavy car; High boost levels require a fuel pump upgrade on pre 2008.5 cars

Overall, a great get-away-with-murder-daily-driver-track-car-in-an-unassuming-package sports car.

My problem with all of them is they're fwd. I was in your shoes a year ago and I bought an E46 M3. If you need 4 doors, get the 330i ZHP instead.

MS3 (of course—although if the Cobalt SS had been out when I was shopping I'd have been intrigued. The hatch probably would have sealed the deal for the Mazda, though.

Couple'a things: 1. The reflash doesn't kill the top end dropoff, installing a more open intake does. The reflash will make the midrange and low end sick, but the top end dropoff is a mechanical issue brought on by all that intake plumbing.

1. There's other colors out there: Silver, black and a grey/blue that looks way better in person than on the internet. White, i think, too.

The red was nearly identical to our GRM red, though. Like, within 2%. I couldn't resist.

jg

Parkeway wrote: As an MS3 owner I can give you my pros and cons...and the "pros" vastly outweigh the "cons" in my book. "Pros" Torque till the cows come home - not much lag and punch in the gut at 3500ish; *Steering feel is good, sharp and "point-and-shoot" quick; *Responds well to easy mods like intake (20hp) and turbo inlet; *Cobb Accessport unlocks even more power. Safely.; *A BEAST in the twisties; *Best braking in the game IMHO; *Room for the kid's carseats or two grown adults in the back "Cons" *Car won't pull till redline on a stock ECU map and 1st/2nd gear are governed by ECU to prevent wheelspin of all things; *Torque steer is prevalent (a stiffer rear motor mount fixed mine); *Heavy car; *High boost levels require a fuel pump upgrade on pre 2008.5 cars Overall, a great get-away-with-murder-daily-driver-track-car-in-an-unassuming-package sports car.

Who's mount did you use? I might be interested (especially if we can make a new industry pal)

jg

I really like hatches, so the Honda would be a no go for me, even as a 4 door. Had Honda brought the 5 door Euro market hatch, I'd be interested.

I've driven the GTI, and I own a regular Mazda3. If I did not have to worry about the cost of maintenance and reliability, and had to choose between the MS3 and GTI, I would pick the GTI. It felt like a much nicer car than other things at the same price point. It was definitely nicer than my 3, but the one I wanted was many thousands more (new), and the insurance costs were substantially higher.

My 3 is has been great, aside from a squeaky seatbelt and a handful of other really minor annoyances. Most of the rattles I've had of late went away when I took all the junk (papers, a few pair of sunglasses, pens) out of the car, go figure.

Im guessing your not looking at a 3 door as that somehow makes the rear seats unusable.

Mini Cooper S or Volvo C30 are worth looking at if you can stand 3 doors.

In the mini the rear seat is close enough that you can reach back and slap your kid/baby if it steps out of line without even taking your eyes off the road....

Does Civic Si need Premium gas? The other two do.

I just cannot justify(personally) a car that needs premium for a daily. I am that cheap.

I'd go with a NEW, plain jane base Mazda3.With the incentive,etc., you'd be looking at ,or under, 14k. It could be made to handle and perform for a whole lot less than 5k, plus you'd have a new car(and warranty) that's fun, comfortable, and economical to drive and maintain.

ignorant wrote: Does Civic Si need Premium gas? The other two do. I just cannot justify(personally) a car that needs premium for a daily. I am that cheap.

11:1 CR says yes