Classic American Muscle

In reply to Javelin:

Agreed.

I swear the SCCA can't win with you guys... They propose a class that's pretty much wide open and you guys want restrictions... My guess is they had the exact same discussion as Jav posted above and then just said "berk it - muscle cars from whenever to present."

In reply to Javelin:

Gen 3 F-Body and Fox body are still competitive on a local level in multiple classes.....I just think this would kill off the entire class if nothing but modern shrimp and ponies ran it.

I don't think the intent is for every car to be competitive. It's just a place to run. Granted, I agree you'll likely see some older, out of date ESP cars jumping ship to this class. Especially if they don't want to run r-comps anymore.

alfadriver wrote: anyone who has run in the Detroit Council for a long time- this will remind you of the Muscle Car class we had a decade ago. Pre- Street Mod, the class was made to allow typical engine swaps in American Muscle/Pony cars. That was later absorbed into the local version of street mod.

Muscle Car Street Prepared! Somewhere, Art Mains is smiling.

In reply to Javelin: I realize that a specific year cut off is hard to set, I think that having a stick rear axle is a better classification tool, with a possible exemption for Corvettes. I'll let the experts debate which generation 'vette goes where.

Are there any other noteworthy American cars with IRS?

this makes me want a C10

HappyAndy wrote: In reply to Javelin: I realize that a specific year cut off is hard to set, I think that having a stick rear axle is a better classification tool, with a possible exemption for Corvettes. I'll let the experts debate which generation 'vette goes where. Are there any other noteworthy American cars with IRS?

Well "stick axle" would allow in the S197 Mustang (05-13) including the Boss 302, as well as all the LT1 and LS1 F-Bodies, all the fox and SN95 Mustangs, etc.

IRS would leave out the 99 & 01-04 Cobra, the 04-06 GTO, new Camaro, new Challenger, 14+ Mustang, and... ?

There's hardly any rules as it is. I like it, let 'em all run! I'll take my 3000 pound stick axle, carburetored, leaf-sprung car against a 4200 pound IRS EFI Challenger any day, especially with unlimited wheel/tire width.

A stick axle isn't that much of a disadvantage on a typical smooth autocross course. For ride/handling balance in a street-driven car it's a different story, of course.

Seems to me the hot ticket would be to take a fast CP car, put a rudimentary interior and some TW200 tires on it, and go own this class.

One is reminded of the scene in Fantasia of the dancing hippos.

Not for me though - the rules prevent necker's knobs? Outrageous!

Tom, one thing that would stop a CP (like mine) from running in it is the requirement of it being licensed and insured, i.e. street legal. My car is way far from that. But I do like the idea of the class. Too bad I don't have my 67 El Camino, it would be a good fit here.

I have a bit of insight on CAM as I was involved somewhat in the creation of the class. We've been running the prototype for CAM in the Indy Region the last 2 years as SMC. The rules are largely patterned after Goodguy's Autocross rules. The minimum weight rule was added because it was suggested by many in the pro-touring community and to keep cars like Cobra and other replica cars / hot rods from have a weight advantage. 3000# was the number most often suggested so that was the number that was used. The original national rules draft did have a model year restriction for how old the car could be but it was dropped. No newer model year restriction was considered. Looking again at Goodguy's, they're easing their model year restrictions for 2014 with several of their events being open to all model year American cars. All their events for the last 2 years have included All American Sundays which drops the model year restrictions and their Sunday autocrosses have shown that classic PT cars and modern muscle cars are pretty evenly matched so it was determined no year restrictions were needed.

I honestly don't see the point of this class. If the intent is just to provide a place for old muscle cars to run, then there's nothing stopping people from doing that now in any number of classes (ESP, CP, SM, assorted local classes). If the intent is to create a class where old muscle cars can be competitive, then this class isn't it--just show up in a stock Z06. If it's to encourage hot rodders to attend national tours, then these guys might show up once. They'll get smoked by an STS Miata, and never come back. If it's supposed to be a regional class, then leave it to the regions.

Finding rules to suit a hot rod kind of class is going to be very difficult, as it's a completely different mindset than SCCA. People don't build hot rods by a rule set, so creating a rule set will either let virtually everything up to A-mod cars in, or exclude half the hot rods it was meant to include

This sounds great. I can't see limiting it to stick axles since corvette rears are such a popular swap in the street rod world. Sometimes getting people involved is as simple as demonstrating that they are welcome. CAM will never rule FTD, but you're talking about ppl with the money and drive to build a car. If they catch the bug and want to be competitive, who knows what they'll build.

time to fit some giant sway bars and get some sticky tires! maybe that 1 1/8" rear bar i got for my truck will find it's way here.

Overall I like the idea and will be entering this year with my third gen F body. I would like to see something of a cap for newer cars, no C5 Vettes (or LT1/ZR1 C4), LT1/LS1 Camaro or post Fox Mustang. Nothing newer than 1993 basiclly.

We'd usually put these types of cars in our catch all "run what you brung" class or XP. Its definitely something to consider adding to our class list.

SSP Vette on street tires. Soup.

Or if you want something a little smaller/nimbler, try a Soltice/Sky in SP trim...again on street tires.

Ownage is yours.

That said, I predict this class will instead quickly become a regional holding ground for refugees from FS, ESP, SM, STX/STU that can't win in their native class. Hopefully, I am wrong.

The difference between SCCA autocrossers and Goodguys/Optima folks is cultural, not classing. Same as between SCCA and the various marque clubs that also do autocrosses (PCA, NCCC, BMWCCA, etc).

Andy Hollis wrote: The difference between SCCA autocrossers and Goodguys/Optima folks is cultural, not classing. S

This.

This pleases me. Now if only there were some local events.

If I were king for a day I would control age by saying the at should have been available with a carb in some trim level, or your specific car is running a carb.