Classic Mustangs? Teach me...

Hey Guys,

So my boss is thinking about getting a classic mustang and because he knows that I work on cars he’s asked me to help shake one down for him. Problem is I’m an import kind of dude so I know nothing about American muscle. Can you guys help give me some pointers I should be on the lookout for when I am checking the car out? I’ve never touched a carbureted engine in my life, let alone something with bench seats.

He’s looking in a 68 – 69 Mustangs from what I’ve seen on the ads. They look pretty good. Also some pricing advice would be great too.

Here are the links below.

Mucho Garcias

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/1710547413.html

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/1705756858.html

Pour some water into the cowl. See if it runs onto the passenger side floor.

It will. Then run away.

67 and 68 are nearly identical. The 289/302 is a decent little motor, but underpowered stock. The 390 GT is the one to get (at a reasonable price), and that's what McQueen drove in Bullitt. 428's are really expensive.

69 is a unique year so parts are more expensive. Boss 302 and Boss 429 are introduced (and stupid expensive for real ones). Mach 1 also came out and is much easier to find (and gorgeous). Could be had with a 351 or 428 IIRC.

Above all else, get a fastback. The coupes can be made to look cool (see the Trans Am clones), but when a fastback pulls up you'll always have regrets.

s codes (390) in good condition are not cheap either. Looked at one recently for a friend and it was valued at 25k in its clean but used condition.

I'll catch flame for this, but here goes..

Don't overlook the inline sixes (sometimes found with 3 speed floor shifters). They run forever, are a breeze to work on, and once the hood is closed, nobody can tell the difference.

If the body is straight and the paint is right, it will still turns people's heads, which is likely what your boss is going for anyway..

the cowl box was galvanized on my 68. I guess that it could happen but I haven't seen any issue like that in the sunbelt. Of course, I haven't been looking at what's on the market in years...

To the point, Autolite 2100's will run with a pound of sand in them. Sorry if that puts them in the Granada performance range in your minds eye. C4s are workman-like, robust and a great match to a 289. Every body want big blocks fastbacks w/ 9" rear-ends, but you'll probably see this combination more than any other.

As much as I love it, the trip thru the time tunnel isn't so great when you have drums at all four corners. That is the one upgrade that I want to address soon.

So there ya go... look for a disc brakes

Steve

edit>> I forgot to add that the distributor is on the correct side of the motor

Good news: Parts are available to basically build one from the ground up.

Bad news: Aforementioned rust, high pricing for fastback and convertibles in relation to the coupes.

Personally, a '68 coupe with a EFI 302 and a 5 speed with a mix of cheapish suspension parts/mods/brakes would make a fine cruiser.

The thing your boss has to remember is that it's a 42 year old car. Main issue is gonna be rust. If there's a mat in the trunk lift it up to see if there's any cancer. Also wind the windows up and down. It's not hard to do but it's a pain to replace regulator parts in the rear quarters. Get under the dash and poke around, if the wiring has been messed with at all run away. Also check out the area behind the heater box to see if there's any coolant stains from a blown heater core. It happens a lot and will spew green stuff into the car. If it's a manual car how much play does the shifter have? If it's a lot it will need a rebuild which will only cost about 20 bucks.

Again keep in mind the car is OLD. If it goes without making odd noises and stops without any excitement the running gear is probably good.

Oh and while the fastbacks are beautiful, good luck finding one that isn't stupidly over priced.

Prices have really come down over the last few years. I have a 68 fastback that I will let go for 4000 dollars. It is a GT, but it needs a good bit of work. I pulled it out of Georgia Clay after sitting for a few years. Needless to say, it needs a good bit of rust repair, and the paint is shot. Mostly complete though. lol.

69 is not a unique year, 99 percent of parts were shared with 1970.

67-68 body parts will be slightly less expensive, but they were basically the same car underneath as all the other 65-73

Gotta agree with everybody else here - fastback.

Other than that just look for the best body you can find - the least amount of rust, the best paint, the nicest trim. Everything else is just nuts and bolts. Inline sixes can be swapped, new interiors are a phone call and weekends worth of work to replace and new wiring isn't that hard - However rust repair is a PITA and expensive.

If you find a suitable builder, it's going to be a coupe for very little $ compared to a fastback. For less the price difference, you can convert a coupe to fastback. All the panels are available plus it fixes all the rust areas in the rear of the car anyways.

The cowl has been a know area for at least 30 years. There are now replacement panels available.

I've owned a 66 shelby, a 67 GT500, a 70 Mach1 (428SCJ)....

all of them handle like crap. all of them drive like crap.

Try to persuade your boss a Rustang is like a whore... pretty on the outside, but the essentials are so out of date

Definitely get the small block and not the 390. They've blown head gaskets for decades. Plus the extra weight in the nose totally blows when you want change lanes, much less try to autocross or impress your girlfriend on twisty roads. It also makes braking a challenge.

They are not sports cars, they were sporty cars for the era.

Ranger50 wrote: If you find a suitable builder, it's going to be a coupe for very little $ compared to a fastback. For less the price difference, you can convert a coupe to fastback. All the panels are available plus it fixes all the rust areas in the rear of the car anyways. The cowl has been a know area for at least 30 years. There are now replacement panels available.

er...there's been replacement panels for everything Mustang for 30 years.

I know there's no place for leaf/tree trash to escape so that could be the source, but they're not British.

JFX001 wrote: Personally, a '68 coupe with a EFI 302 and a 5 speed with a mix of cheapish suspension parts/mods/brakes would make a fine cruiser.

That's exactly what I'm building for a neighbor, starting mid-June. There will be a build thread here. It's a really clean GT coupe, 302/4spd, with manual drums and manual steering and no AC and no console. We're starting with S197 wheels / tires / brakes, cutting the front springs, putting on the biggest bars we can find over-the-counter, then when it's driving right we'll start on the EFI roller-cam 5.0 / T5. I will be patenting the brackets for the S197 brakes, and they'll be commercially available in about a year.

The 69 Fastback is, in my opinion, the best looking Mustang ever built. My advice to you and your boss is that in the long run it will be MUCH cheaper to buy the best car you can up front instead of saving a few bucks on a total rustbucket. Look for cars that are incomplete restorations--guys get in over their heads, half the work is done and they almost always sell the car for less than they have in it.

Also, the 69 isn't really a unique body, as the 70 is very similar except for the nose (I prefer the quad headlights of the 69).

Want to drop some real coin? Dynacorn is producing complete repop Mustang bodies now. Throw in an RRS suspension and a 32-valve mod motor and you've got a wicked little car. Not cheap, but wicked.

Now with all that said...is your boss cool enough to consider an early Cougar instead? There is nothing on this planet cooler than a Parnelli Jones/Bud Moore Cougar clone, except maybe a real one.

Ditto what most have said, but I'll repeat important highlights. I don't care how many panels are available, don't buy a rusty one. Spend the green and buy a finished car or a good quality driver and tinker with it. When these cars rust, they rust like British cars. The cowl rot happens to all of them, but it's only bothersome if they ever see rain. There are repair kits and cowl vent blocks to work around that. Even a clean car can have a rotten cowl.

Yeah, fastbacks are by far cooler but you will pay a premium for them. Nothing wrong with coupes until you get to '69, then they have a hopelessly unattractive roofline that simply doesn't work. Convertibles are a safe resale bet but will be creakier than the others.

The small block is the way to fly on a hobby Mustang. The FE big block is so freaking heavy it's not funny. It makes a car with bad handling and brakes so much worse. Mustangs are light cars; it doesn't take much to make a fast one with a simple 289/302.

Cougars are harder to find, harder to sell and more expensive/difficult to restore. You have to really like them for it to be worthwhile.

Another beware of rust and have him buy the best condition one he can afford.

Rust isn't a cowl only issue with Mustangs, and that's only an issue in downpours. (it ain't a structural problem). They rust nicely on the faux frame rails in the back where the spring perches are, and the other classic rust spots of generic cars.

Fastback, big block, a/c, automatic are all a matter of taste. What does your boss/frind want and envision? Mustangs came in all flavors. There's nothing wrong with Moose tracks icecream, unless you really wanted strawberry.

oldeskewltoy wrote: I've owned a 66 shelby, a 67 GT500, a 70 Mach1 (428SCJ).... all of them handle like crap. all of them drive like crap. Try to persuade your boss a Rustang is like a whore... pretty on the outside, but the essentials are so out of date

This is the guy that we all need to listen to, folks. The first thing I spent money on once I got a real job was a nice '65 Fastback. I loved looking at it, but my 300k mile '89 Civic Si was what I drove for fun. I've also restored a '65 Coupe and '67 and '68 Convertibles. Cowl repair panels are available, but it's a *huge* job and they are a major structural part of the car.
 

And the suspension and brakes on the six cylinders are all much lighter duty. Just look for the four bolt wheels to spot a six.

I've done my time with classic mustangs, and the best advice has already been mentioned a few times in this thread, buy the best car you can possibly afford as a starting point, and check every possible nook and crevice for rust, and signs of previous body repairs done poorly. the fast back/coupe debate is a matter of personal taste. My-self, I prefer coupe in '64 through '68 and FB for all years after that, but I did own a '70 coupe that was quite attractive in wimbeldon white. Don't waste money for a big block unless you want a drag car or concouse restoration project, the small blocks and I6's drive much better and are easier to service. Also one point worth noting is that there has been mention of the cowl rot problems, '69/'70 have a different cowl/plenum design that has has fewer problems and the pour water in the cowl test doest usualy work with those years.

I love old fords, but Ill be damned if I ever buy annother classic mustang(unless some has a rust free sunbelt '67 coupe for free) I'm strictly a falcon/fairlane /torrino man for now on

I have never heard of anyone converting a coupe to a fastback. Even if you could do it, you wouldn't want to. You'd spend far more than you would if you had simply restored an actual fastback and it will be worth much less when you're done.

this is an urban legond, I won't say it cant be done, but no one with any sence would try it, the from the cowl back its a completly different body. The coupe to convertable has been done, but it is very ill advised.

Not much to add except my buddy has a '68 fastback 428 stick car.

Big blocks are expodentially more expensive than small blocks.

Dan

I have never heard of a coupe to fastback conversion either.

Back when I was restoring these, we did do a couple of coupe to convertible conversions (complete with new torque boxes and specific rails/parts). These were for the owners family, and not for resale.

The fix that I was told to perform on the cowls called for cutting the ends off, cleaning out, fiber-glassing both sides, dremeling the hole for the new vents to fit on the bottom (with copious amounts of silicone) and re-welding the ends back on.PITA job...but it did work.

I've owned a '65 289 Coupe, a '70 Boss 302, and a '67 XR7 GT Cougar with a 390 4-Speed. The Cougar was by far my favorite of the 3, and was easily the fastest in a straight line. The Boss 302 handled a bit better, but that's relative because a truck would do better today. In other words, they really did drive badly, and the brakes, even the 4 wheel discs on the Cougar, were nothing to write home about. Still they were all fun in that ground shaking kind of way.

The Cougar also got the worst mpg, not that it matter much in these kinds of cars, but it rarely got into double digits, usually in the 7-9mpg range.

Other than that, I'll mirror what most people here have said, buy body condition first...mechanicals are cheap in comparison.