He just dropped this:
Racebrick said:Some of you don't hang out at dirt tracks, and it really shows.
Or paved short tracks. I've seen MUCH worse than these. Like the bomber class. Full frame gm/ford full size sedans with the bench seat, driving one armed using the other to half hold them in the seat and a harness bar behind them as the total extent of safety equipment doing figure 8 racing.
bobzilla said:Racebrick said:Some of you don't hang out at dirt tracks, and it really shows.
Or paved short tracks. I've seen MUCH worse than these. Like the number class. Full frame gm/ford full size sedans with the bench seat, driving one armed using the other to half hold them in the seat and a harness bar behind them as the total extent of safety equipment doing figure 8 racing.
"We've always done it that way" is the usually the most common statement after a big event / accident.
Kendall_Jones said:bobzilla said:Racebrick said:Some of you don't hang out at dirt tracks, and it really shows.
Or paved short tracks. I've seen MUCH worse than these. Like the number class. Full frame gm/ford full size sedans with the bench seat, driving one armed using the other to half hold them in the seat and a harness bar behind them as the total extent of safety equipment doing figure 8 racing.
"We've always done it that way" is the usually the most common statement after a big event / accident.
It's not even that I don't think. They just don't care.
In reply to kb58 :
I bet most won't watch it but it's funny how similar it is to this thread.
bobzilla said:Racebrick said:Some of you don't hang out at dirt tracks, and it really shows.
Or paved short tracks. I've seen MUCH worse than these. Like the bomber class. Full frame gm/ford full size sedans with the bench seat, driving one armed using the other to half hold them in the seat and a harness bar behind them as the total extent of safety equipment doing figure 8 racing.
There's a small paved oval near here that does "Spectator Drags". That means two STREET cars line up and race around the track for a few laps. Almost every one of these ends up with contact, and sometimes they crash HARD. It's nuts. Zero safety equipment other than maybe a helmet. And these aren't slow clunkers, either; these guys are moving at a good clip when they hit.
On the Figure 8 racing, our local fairground has seen some pretty crazy events. I watched a guy flip over in a J-Body wagon that was literally on fire, and they put out the fire, flipped it back over, got it running again and they kept racing. When it caught fire again, he called it quits. Another time, I watched a guy get hit so hard he had a mild heart attack. The EMT's stabilized him, and he went back out there to complete the race! Insane.
That stuff happens all over the country (and likely the world) every week. But people choose to do that to themselves for the entertainment of others, and I'm sure they are signing waivers and all that. That's on them. They know what they are getting into.
kb58 said:He just dropped this:
tl;dw for everyone:
hunter47 said:
tl;dw for everyone:
- Fixed window nets were a terrible idea and that'll be something he'll be fixing in the future
- The track was very dangerous in terms of sight lines and a lot of inexperienced people
- He's unsure of how to prevent accidents since it's racing, but he's open to the idea of making the cars safer
I thought it was good of him to get out so quickly to check on everyone. He's got safety people there but he did make it a point to go check on people himself.
My only interest in him is that the "Freedom Factory" is where I started karting.
Its great that he is making positive safety improvements.
Its negligent not to do some basic research into proper safety design before racing.
He needs to be more proactive, less reactive.
OK, I've been a critic, but props to the guy. He obviously realized some of the issues and or heard some outcry and planning some changes. I criticized him when I thought him worthy of it, and now I'll recognize him for apparently learning and improving.
I watched it with an open mind. I don't care for Cleetus' channel, but don't hate on the guy for being wildly successful. Nor do I know or care what he thinks politically, medically, etc.
My take away from what he said: Bristol was outside his experience level. He has figured out what works at Freedom Factory doesn't necessarily work everywhere. He sees how dumb the window net installs were and is going to change it. He obviously cared about his competitors as he checked on everyone instantly after the crash. I can't say I'd have been that quick and coherent. I think where he still misses the mark is thinking his 'door bars' and those cages are anything near sufficient. He also has a bit too much faith in the Crown Vics to protect his drivers. Yeah, they are strong cars but 'full frame' doesn't mean squat when the bodywork is mowed off the frame rails, like happened to at least two of those cars. I also saw on either VGG or Sleeperdude's channel that one of those cars had massive floorpan/tunnel damage. That means a massively hard hit. These were the wrong cars to be going around Bristol, IMO, at least in the configuration he had them.
Hopefully, with more time and input from his pool of competitors and others, he will decide to do something better.
This would explain why the price of unmolested Crown Vics is going up.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:This would explain why the price of unmolested Crown Vics is going up.
At least he is destroying terrible cars.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:If the cage was attached to the frame and not the body, that is positively horrifying.
That's how a full frame car is supposed to be caged. Our LeMons Ford LTD Landau was caged that way, and has passed LeMons tech with flying colors. I even cut away a section of the floor (and welded it back in afterwards) to show the tech inspectors where and how the cage was welded to the frame.
I had watched Kevin Smith's account of the accident, which he made the day after, and you could tell he was pretty disgusted with himself but it was 24 hours later and he has time to compose himself a little. Seeing the immediate aftermath and reaction in Cleetus' video, you can see that Kevin, who's usually a pretty good-natured and composed guy, is just absolutely gutted how bad he screwed up and by what he caused. This is Kevin's video, if anyone cares to watch it. He's a pretty mild, intelligent guy, so no wild personas in this video.
In reply to ddavidv :
My suggestion would be to leave a comment on the video explaining the cage issues. Unlike some channels, they read the comments.
Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:OK, I've been a critic, but props to the guy. He obviously realized some of the issues and or heard some outcry and planning some changes. I criticized him when I thought him worthy of it, and now I'll recognize him for apparently learning and improving.
Dude, we have to stop agreeing so much here.
NickD said:In reply to ddavidv :
My suggestion would be to leave a comment on the video explaining the cage issues. Unlike some channels, they read the comments.
I'm not watching all of those terrible videos, but I took that advice and left a comment.
In reply to NickD :
Kevin did "take responsibility" for the wreck but he also pointed some blame toward Nick Sous (the guy he bumped in the rear) for his inability to save it. That's inaccurate. Kevin did not just bump him. The initial bump got Nick loose, and rather than back off and give Nick a chance to save it, Kevin stayed on the gas, pushing him further out of control and giving him no chance to save it. Id call Kevin's driving beyond "too aggressive" and I might say there was a moment in time where the red mist got him and he was intentionally pushing Nick's car out of his way.
In reply to Lof8 - Andy :
His apology was weaker than I would have liked, but at least he gave one. I wouldn't blame Cleetus if he has Kevin sit out the next few races.
In reply to eastsideTim :
I dunno. A deceptive or inaccurate apology might be worse than none. I know I've lost a chunk of respect for him.
Lof8 - Andy said:In reply to NickD :
Kevin did "take responsibility" for the wreck but he also pointed some blame toward Nick Sous (the guy he bumped in the rear) for his inability to save it. That's inaccurate. Kevin did not just bump him. The initial bump got Nick loose, and rather than back off and give Nick a chance to save it, Kevin stayed on the gas, pushing him further out of control and giving him no chance to save it. Id call Kevin's driving beyond "too aggressive" and I might say there was a moment in time where the red mist got him and he was intentionally pushing Nick's car out of his way.
It looks like there was plenty of contact in that race and none of it raised an eyebrow. In a LeMons race any one of those contacts would've got you at least a stern talking to if not a black flag. Running a full-contact back-40 race on a big banked oval was sure to end in a wreck, the only question was how bad.
Bump drafting in corners is for experts, and at this level of racing almost indistinguishable from malice.
I unsubscribed from Kevin after he retaliated into kyle busch at mullets. I'm sure he's a talented dude but he seems too eager to show that to the world.
The epitome of success for a GRM member and certified car people should be a wildly successful YouTube channel where you get to quit your day job and spend all your time building, racing and destroying cars while making tons of money, to the point you have haters and multipage, heated discussions on web forums.
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