Cobalt SS turbo--why not?

t25torx wrote: For the same price you can get an LS1/2 GTO. You'll spend the same amount in gas probably, have a nicer interior and some of the most comfortable seats for long trips. 11k is a lot of money, and I can think of dozens of cars I'd rather have before that one.

A big appeal though is how capable this car is while simoultaneously, unlike the GTO, your entry point gets you a car that's no more than ~5 years old and with <50K miles. That's a lot of worry free future wear and tear to consume.

Not a knock on the GTO, but a newer 4 banger sleeper has it's appeals as well. Once you get into older/higher mileage alternatives, there's always something that will outperform, but there's always tradeoffs with age/reliability.

Not sure if has G85 option, but here's a 40K example for $12.5K obo. http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/4286620574.html

In reply to xflowgolf:

Have them look in the trunk for the RPO sticker. If G85 is listed, it has an ATB. I had an s/c ion redline, and it was one of the most reliable vehicles I've owned. They'll take abuse while begging for more. And as usual, the stock clutch is the weak link in the driveline.

Swank Force One wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Why not? Because this has basically the same engine and transmission, a better interior, and is half the price?

Half the price? That seems... implausible. Very few cars lose value like a recent domestic.

"Very few cars" includes an orphan/dead brand that everyone is afraid of being able to get parts for.

Precisely. Shop a 9-3SS next to a Cobalt SS, you'll see. Saab resale values haven't held up too well for obvious reasons, although the assertion that parts are hard to find is pretty much a myth.

SlickDizzy wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Why not? Because this has basically the same engine and transmission, a better interior, and is half the price?

Half the price? That seems... implausible. Very few cars lose value like a recent domestic.

"Very few cars" includes an orphan/dead brand that everyone is afraid of being able to get parts for.

Precisely. Shop a 9-3SS next to a Cobalt SS, you'll see. Saab resale values haven't held up too well for obvious reasons, although the assertion that parts are hard to find is pretty much a myth.

The only thing that might be a minus for the SAAB is the LSD. I do not know if they came with one but other than that I would say the 9-3SS is the better bargain.

In reply to SlickDizzy:

Well, there are some other issues......like some parts prices.

yamaha wrote: In reply to SlickDizzy: Well, there are some other issues......like some parts prices.

What would you need that's expensive, short of wrecking the thing? Give me an example. The 9-3SS is 80% GM. They are one of the cheapest Saabs to run simply because of that; basically an Opel with a different body, there is a surprising amount of parts overlap with the Cobalt too.

The SS is unbeatable value and parts aren't too bad. GM seems to be supporting parts well and the same basic engine continues to be used in current models (e.g. Buick).

As someone said, go easy on the clutch - they won't stand drag racing starts for long, at least judging by all the kids on the forums that have managed to destroy their clutches. If you drive like a normal person - con brio but avoid those starts, I believe they stand up quite well.

Count me as a fan of the turbo Cobalt SS---- especially in 4-door form. I'd probably ditch the ginormous wheels and go with something more subdued, as the "super-sleeper" angle appeals to me.

The Saab 9-3 is an interesting option, but I think they tended to weigh considerably more than the Cobalt-- the Swede has a much nicer interior though.

FWIW-- my brother's standard Cobalt (rental car refugee) was totally, and completely reliable for the 100K miles he owned it.

I've never driven one in anger, but the chassis was supposed to be superb--- one of the best handling FWD cars of it's day.

In reply to SlickDizzy:

Headlights.....granted my experience is mid-00 range 9-3. They were retarded expensive for anything not "used"

You don't have that problem with the cobalt.

In reply to Joe Gearin:

I'll contend they are still a very good handling chassis today, even with the dated rear beam suspension instead of IRS.

I've always been interested in these "also ran" cars. I did look into them before buying my 2009 WRX, but the dealers around me all wanted MORE for the SS than I got my WRX for, and the WRX seemed like much more car for the money. Add in that the WRX had more space and came in a hatch body style, and that was a no-brainer.

Fast forward to today, and I've seen turbo SS cars down in the low teens for clean examples. I'd consider one if one came along at the right price. My sister-in-law has a regular Cobalt sedan, and it has held up fine to the obscene amount of abuse she puts her cars through. I've been in it a few times, and it seems as nice as the typical Corollas and Civics of that era that I've been in. Yeah, I just said that. It's a big improvement over the old Cadavalier.

I'd get an insurance quote and schedule a test drive. It can't hurt.

yamaha wrote: In reply to SlickDizzy: Headlights.....granted my experience is mid-00 range 9-3. They were retarded expensive for anything not "used" You don't have that problem with the cobalt. In reply to Joe Gearin: I'll contend they are still a very good handling chassis today, even with the dated rear beam suspension instead of IRS.

How many Saab headlights can i buy for $8k?

In reply to Swank Force One:

With ballasts(since thats what normally takes a E36 M3), 5-6.....unless they've somehow come down in price with SAAB's demise.....

My wife and I have a boring Cobalt LT as a DD. It feels solid and is super reliable, I can't fault it or justify getting anything else. Parts are plentiful and cheap. In contrast, I have rented more than a few Chev Cruze's - they look ok, but the build quality feels so light and chinzy that I just can't like them.

Do it, and let's see that 300HP at work.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: With ballasts(since thats what normally takes a E36 M3), 5-6.....unless they've somehow come down in price with SAAB's demise.....

Only Vector/Aero models had HIDs anyways, but brand new OE ballasts are $260 each, if you only need those. Xenon lenses are $710 per side. Not cheap, but you'd never need a lens unless you ran into something pretty hard. I still don't see how the price of Xenon headlight parts makes them worthless as a vehicle. Plus, there are cheaper aftermarket solutions anyways.

http://www.eeuroparts.com/Cars/SAAB/1856/2004-9-3-Aero-2-0L-4-Cyl-16-Valve-Turbo/1016/Exterior-Electrical/

SlickDizzy wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Why not? Because this has basically the same engine and transmission, a better interior, and is half the price?

Half the price? That seems... implausible. Very few cars lose value like a recent domestic.

"Very few cars" includes an orphan/dead brand that everyone is afraid of being able to get parts for.

Precisely. Shop a 9-3SS next to a Cobalt SS, you'll see. Saab resale values haven't held up too well for obvious reasons, although the assertion that parts are hard to find is pretty much a myth.

I suppose. I don't know much about the Saabs, did they make them for more years? Can you really get a ~5 year old one for 5 grand with the turbo motor?

Desmond wrote: Three words: Dodge Neon SRT4.

The SRT4 wasn't a "Neon". Not that anybody ever cared, you know? They either see it as a bargain performance car or "OMG Neon POS lol"

t25torx wrote: For the same price you can get an LS1/2 GTO. You'll spend the same amount in gas probably, have a nicer interior and some of the most comfortable seats for long trips.

Well, so would I. Or an S197 Mustang. But those are completely different cars from a FWD turbo compact, so I don't know that you'd necessarily be cross-shopping them.

Tom_Spangler wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote:

Swank Force One wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Why not? Because this has basically the same engine and transmission, a better interior, and is half the price?

Half the price? That seems... implausible. Very few cars lose value like a recent domestic.

"Very few cars" includes an orphan/dead brand that everyone is afraid of being able to get parts for.

Precisely. Shop a 9-3SS next to a Cobalt SS, you'll see. Saab resale values haven't held up too well for obvious reasons, although the assertion that parts are hard to find is pretty much a myth.

I suppose. I don't know much about the Saabs, did they make them for more years? Can you really get a ~5 year old one for 5 grand with the turbo motor?

I wouldn't be surprised.... i haven't shopped for them, though. I've been looking for an early 2000s 9-3. Been seeing nice ones for well under $3k.

In reply to Tom_Spangler:

All 03-up Saab 9-3's had either the 2.0 Ecotec turbo or 2.8 V6 twin turbo, both of which were great engines. I have seen base model 5-speed 04-05s as low as $2000 around here. To get the 6-speed you had to have a Vector/Aero model (or 2003 Arc), those tend to hover around $4-5k, still a pretty good deal. LSD swaps in (gearset is the same as the Cobalt SS) and a cheap tune will get you the same amount of power as the Cobalt SS, even more if you feel like adding a downpipe and exhaust.

Look around here to see the kind of stuff you can get for a 9-3SS: http://www.genuinesaab.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=44&osCsid=8f642b77ac2666a47367101e5d8ae48f

In reply to SlickDizzy:

Fair enough, they have come down a bit.

And Knurled, the srt4 was still a neon even if they refused to put neon badges on it.

Swank Force One wrote:

Tom_Spangler wrote:

SlickDizzy wrote: Why not? Because this has basically the same engine and transmission, a better interior, and is half the price?

Half the price? That seems... implausible. Very few cars lose value like a recent domestic.

"Very few cars" includes an orphan/dead brand that everyone is afraid of being able to get parts for.

There's a good reason for people to be afraid. There's a lot of little E36 M3 that Saab used that none of hte GM cars did. Finding interior pieces and parts new is next to impossible. We've had quite a few roll through the used car lot and damn is it hard to find the parts and pieces to make them whole. I know. I'm usually the guy that has to try and find them.

You're having a hard time finding interior parts for a decade old Saab?

Anyways, i was referring more to "real" parts. There's a huge misconception out there that you can't get E36 M3 like starters, alternators, and blah blah blah for ANY saabs anymore, when the reality is that overall, parts supply is quite good for the majority of them save for the last couple years.

decade old? No. The last one in the shop was an 08. That's 6 years old.

1) The Saab is a very different engine. Its a LK9, which AFAIK is basically a turbo LSJ. ~205hp.

The SS is an LNF with 260hp. GM supported a 315hp tune of the LNF under warranty. Its a pretty solid motor.

2) The SS sedan is cool.

3) The biggest downside of the SS is the annoying as E36 M3 bolt-pattern. There are ways to convert it to 5x114 I believe though (GM did this on factory race cars)

Bobzilla wrote: decade old? No. The last one in the shop was an 08. That's 6 years old.

Ah ok. I think i'll steer away from saabs if i can't replace the scratched shifter console with a brand new part from GM.