Collectible NA vs older NC for DD, which would you prefer and why?

icaneat50eggs wrote: Keith, what tweaks would you do to make a na a better dd?

Depends on the car - step 1, fix what's broken But let's assume we're starting with a perfect 1994 or so. You'll see a lot of FM parts here, but that's due in large part to the fact that I think they're as good as they get. If they're not, I'm in a position to do something about it.

First, suspension. Something with more travel and some compliance. My personal pick is the FM 2.5 kit. Give it a good alignment.

A butterfly brace gets rid of a bunch of creaks and groans and lets the suspension work better.

Now, seats. Strip the covers off and sculpt the foam to match your particular lumps, nooks and crannies. I tend to get pretty involved in this, doing a lot more than just the typical "foamectomy". I'll shape the side bolsters and the back of the seat as well as the base.

Sound deadening on the rear deck. I use Bonded Logic. Put it under the carpet on the rear deck and the rear bulkhead.

Now we get into personalization. A light flywheel makes the car more fun. Since your main point of contact with the car is the steering wheel and the shift knob, consider changing them out for something else. A different set of gauge faces can freshen things up - nobody else will care, but they'll put a smile on your face. Choose the exhaust with care, you don't want anything too loud.

My own car has a hardtop with no soft top. That's a personal thing. It's also got an audio system that runs off my iPod.

Power level is a very personal thing. My own car runs an FM II with the small 2554 turbo. It's fast enough to be fun, and very responsive. Torque is good for DD use, so I'd stay away from high revving naturally aspirated builds with IRTBs. The important thing is that it's easy to live with, not requiring constant fiddling or tuning.

I know where I'm at on the whole thing. NC with a 2.5l Motor :D I drove my first one the other day and the additional torque from the 2.5L make it a lot of fun.

The early NC's are getting cheap enough that I can build the right one for about 15K and get me an older lexus for the road trips.

I find "collectable" Miata's kind of a joke as they all have the same bones except the mazdaspeed so you are just paying for a paint color and a few small options.

These last 2 posts nailed it.

EDIT: In other words, buy what you want/like. Dropping money on a relatively modern car is always a depreciating asset. So just get what you want and enjoy it! Life is too short to not have some fun as an enthusiast.

OSULemon wrote: Is there a particular part of the seat that irritated you? Lack of bolstering? I wonder if a sub $400 aftermarket replacement might solve that issue.

The lumbar bolster is non adjustable and sticks out way too far for my liking. When I first got it, I would have a ton of back pain after a 45 minute ride. However, after a few weeks, I guess I got used to the car and it didn't bother me anymore. But I never actually grew to "like" it.

I had the chance to take a bone stock 2015 NC home last night. It's got less than 950 miles on it and still smells like a new car.

Pleasant enough. The stock suspension is so much better than it was a decade ago, it's not even funny. The only real difference is the shock calibration, too. I don't know what the heck Mazda was thinking when they signed off on the shocks in 2005.

But you know what? It's bland. I don't need pain with my commute, but I do want a car with feel in the steering and an engine that does more than just whirr and behave the same at 25% throttle as it does at 50% as it does at 100%. It was - inoffensive. It didn't make me crack a smile once. To me, the car sits in that awkward area where it's not a Camry but it's not a rewarding drive either. I can totally see how it's popular with the "we drive to eat!" club crowd, as it would be very comfortable running in a convoy on a moderately curvy road at a reasonable speed with the top down.

Nothing some more power and a sharper suspension and an exhaust note with a wider musical range than Dave Matthews couldn't solve, of course.

The most fun I've ever had with an NC on track was our supercharged car with good suspension and crap tires. It was hilarious, the chassis finally woke up.

Anyhow - I'm happy with my choice of a personalized NA as a daily driver, even compared to the best stock NC available.

BTW, here's my little daily.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/1990-mazda-mx-5-miata-turbo-smurf-by-flyin-miatadriven-ar165034.html

I've never actually seen your daily Keith. I like it.

I agree with you on the pure stock NC being bland. I had written them off till I drove one done up with the 2.5L motors. It had the cams and not the latest and greatest PPE header you just announced but the one before that. I think it was the 1.62" primary. So it was in the ball park of the same HP of yours. I think the owner said 195 HP and 198 Ft-LB torque. Very flat curve on the motor.

He had some suspension work but it was a toy and not a track car. It just made a really good combo I felt I could drive everywhere.

I've had 3 miatas (2 NA's and a MSM) and I liked it better than any of them as an overall package. I found the MSM to be a little more exciting but I'm a bigger guy at 6'1 and 225 so an MSM is really tight on me.

That TopSpeed writeup was a bit of a surprise. I tossed the keys to Christian so he could check out the brakes. He was gone a long time and came back with a huge grin on his face. And before I knew it, we were doing a photo shoot.

We're doing a supercharged 2.5 swap here right now. I'm looking forward to trying it. I'm hoping the motor has a bit more character than the 2.0 does. It's going into a 2013 Club that's got a set of our swaybars and not much else, so it'll be a good comparison to the stock one.

z31maniac wrote: NC period. I hate having to deal with DDing old cars. You may not. If you find an early NC, a quick spring/shock change and some stickier tire will make it an entirely different car. Maybe add a tune and exhaust and enjoy.

I was thinking an older NC and this, or waiting until the 16's hit the dealer for a rebate-priced new '15, and wound up in an NB.

NB was the one that I liked, but I hadn't driven a new NC, either... and I'm by no means sad about that, love this little bugger.

Keith Tanner wrote: We're doing a supercharged 2.5 swap here right now.

Now THAT is a cool car. How much powa?

At 10k you could get a nice LT1 C4 Vette convertible, maybe a C5 with a lot of miles.

HiTempguy wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: We're doing a supercharged 2.5 swap here right now.

Now THAT is a cool car. How much powa?

We'll find out when it's done I suspect the power number won't be the headliner, the blower will start to run out of headroom. But it should have lots of torques. I'm thinking it'll make a pretty great street setup.

Gearheadotaku wrote: At 10k you could get a nice LT1 C4 Vette convertible, maybe a C5 with a lot of miles.

Not interested in the C4. I did consider the C5, and still am. It's a step up in speed with a step down in condition, a tradeoff I may not be willing to make right now. It may take a few test drives to figure that out.

I've seen Goodwin racings 2.5 NC at autocross and its fast. Last event however he brought the Cosworth powered Supercharged monster

There's some turbo 2.5 swapped NCs out there making some enormous power.

HiTempguy wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: We're doing a supercharged 2.5 swap here right now.

Now THAT is a cool car. How much powa?

There was someone claiming around 400hp over on one of the Miata forums with his setup. He was having cooling issues, even with a vented hood, better radiator, etc.

Lots of money involved though if you think about it. It would make more sense to go straight to a V8 swap, unless you've already got the 2.0 and a supercharger and fall over a 2.5 engine to swap in.

Still I'm very interested in what FM finds when they actually do it and collect actual data since I'm interested in an NC for my next DD and looking at modifications has me on the fence about which direction I'd like to go with it once its done being a DD.

Keith Tanner wrote: BTW, here's my little daily. http://www.topspeed.com/cars/mazda/1990-mazda-mx-5-miata-turbo-smurf-by-flyin-miatadriven-ar165034.html

Love the Prototipo, my favorite steering wheel. I had one in my '91 BRG, I really miss that car.

I need a new wheel hate the stock airbag one. would the protipo work well with a quick release and racing seat also?

In reply to Keith Tanner: Keith, RE the NC. Well said! I don't want to drive everyday in a Camry or a Solara. I want something that makes me smile. My impression of the NCS is they are closer to a Range Rover than a sports car.

I'm sure you could pour enough parts in to make them fun, but why bother. Please Lord make the ND much closer to what we found to be fun in a Miata!

I'm also with the camp of you have to drive both and buy the one you like the best. I haven't driven a NC yet, but for a good baseline, I would start with which car has the best seats if I didn't want to buy an aftermarket Corbeau seat or cut up the NA seat.

You threw out E36 M3 or ZHP E46. Having owned a bunch of Miata, a ZHP E46 and a '95 M3, I wouldn't even consider a Miata for DD or anything else. I'm slightly shorter than you but any Miata is cramped compared with the extensive legroom of the BMW. Can you say torque? Not in same sentence as Miata. Torque is great for a DD. Room is great for DD. Parts availability, swap ability, cheap parts, aftermarket, modability, the E36 has it. What ever you can do to a Miata has been done to a E36. Come in 2-4 and convertible varieties.

I really liked my modded '90 Miata. The elemental sports car, revved great, great exhaust note, great handling. No DD creature comforts other than the AC that never worked quite right. The other NA I had were nice but stock and less fun. The NB I bought new was more appliance like with cruise, power, etc. I modded it, too, but I never liked it as much as the '90.

The ZHP was a great DD. One of the best long distance cruisers I've owned. Best stock seats, ever. More legroom than I could use. Zero issues, sold on to my son who had trouble free ownership well over 100,000 miles.

The '95 M3 I bought for a track toy. It was rough, but I was replacing or removing most everything anyway, so I didn't care. It has been as reliable as a 5 pound hammer. I flog it on track and it never complains. I have several friends who have E36 M3. None of the others are as track prepped as mine and they are great cars to DD. They can haul a bunch of crap, as much as your miata and trailer, probably. They are available everywhere for reasonable prices. Parts availability is great and not expensive. I was sold by a friend on the idea of getting a E36 M3. Since then, we have convinced three other guys to sell their track toys and get E36 M3s.

I'm not biased against small, light sports cars. My DD is an FRS.

Do yourself a favor before you decide. The Miata you know. Drive the ZHP (thin on the ground) and an E36 M3. Which ever one puts the biggest smile on YOUR face, buy it!