Combo rallycross car/track rat?

Kylini wrote: You can rallycross with stiff suspension. You just might regularly blow your shocks. Changing heights and reconnecting sway bars doesn't take much time between events.

I've run rates about double the stock rates for the last two seasons, and my cheap Bilstein HD shocks are holding up just fine. Finally replaced one after five years of use (and that was from hitting some train tracks that finally killed it). Buy some HDs from the start, and you won't regularly blow them unless you're running ridiculously high rates.

In reply to irish44j:

What seems to blow Bilsteins in general is cold temperatures. The seals only seal from internal gas pressure, when cold the gas pressure is low, two plus two equals all your fluid dumped on the ground.

Knurled wrote: In reply to irish44j: What seems to blow Bilsteins in general is cold temperatures. The seals only seal from internal gas pressure, when cold the gas pressure is low, two plus two equals all your fluid dumped on the ground.

Yeah, I'd certainly agree with you on that point as a general rule, but I haven't had that issue - we did the Wellsboro winter rally two years running (granted, it wasn't as cold as usual) and have done a good amount of sub-freezing rallycrosses. Like I said, the only time we've blown an HD was during a fairly warm-weather stage rally (and the hit that blew it broke two wheels, so it was kind of expected lol). IIRC Dan Downey (who runs an e30 rallycross/stage up in New England and does a lot of winter events) ran his OEM Bilstein HDs for like 4 seasons before he finally replaced them. YMMV though.

EDIT: also, the one we blew had no outward signs of leaking. I think we actually bent it from the hit so the piston wouldn't travel smoothly.

irish44j wrote: e36 318ti is almost ideal....all the utility of the e30 (and e30 rear suspension and chassis mount strength) - actually more utility due to the hatchback - and the more refined interior from the e36.

I actually agree with this, our 318ti has Bilstein HDs and e36 328i springs all around, and with the addition of an LSD would be a really solid rallycrosser as long as you keep up with the cooling system maintenance and replace every piece of rubber in the entire car.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ wrote:

irish44j wrote: e36 318ti is almost ideal....all the utility of the e30 (and e30 rear suspension and chassis mount strength) - actually more utility due to the hatchback - and the more refined interior from the e36.

I actually agree with this, our 318ti has Bilstein HDs and e36 328i springs all around, and with the addition of an LSD would be a really solid rallycrosser as long as you keep up with the cooling system maintenance and replace every piece of rubber in the entire car.

The cooling system maintenance is as easy as swapping in an M3 radiator and a 6cyl BMW overflow tank (mine is from an M20). I've had zero cooling issues over the years other than the time my electric fan relay went bad.

Maintenance and replacing rubber (which counts as maintenance, really) makes ANY car a solid rallycross car. Most of the people you see having problems are the people who trailer to events, and the car gets put on the trailer and ignored until the next time it's unloaded at a rallycross.

If you drive to and from, that kinda forces you to notice problems, and have greater incentive to CORRECT them.

^^truth

In reply to Knurled:

Well, to that end, I would like to also use the car as a winter beater to save my FR-S from the salt and save gas money vs. driving the Sequoia. So that's something.

So, I've been checking out your suggestions, guys. FC RX-7s are pretty thin on the ground nowadays. There are a couple that look promising w/in 3-4 hours, but only a couple. As for RWD Celicas... well there aren't any. Perhaps I should have mentioned I'm in Columbus Ohio. I'm searching craigslist from there so, Columbus, Cincy, Cleveland, Detroit, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, etc. They use some road salt around here.

I have seen quite a few promising E30s and E36s. How much will I hate a 4-cylinder car on track? Will it be literally the slowest thing ever? I actually owned a 325e about 20 years ago and it was beautiful, but not a very fun motor. Do I need to get an "is" car to have a LSD? Was it just a standalone option like on American cars?

Thanks to everyone!

I'll agree with trailered cars breaking more. 90% of the major failures I see at rallycrosses are a car that got trailered there. Personally, I've never broken anything I couldn't fix before the drive home.

In reply to rslifkin:

I've driven home with a trans that only had 3rd and 4th gear, and a trans that only had 1st, 2nd, and 5th, and have driven home on only one axle. But I've never failed to be able to drive home. (Disclaimer: I could have driven home from Nebraska in 2014. If I didn't mind losing most of my hearing. Also probably could have driven home from the first broken axle incident although the rearend really wouldn't have appreciated running with negative backlash)

ShadowSix, I still strongly recommend an E36. If only because they have ridiculous depreciation and you can get a remarkable amount of car for the money. Just, OMG don't look in Cleveland. You only think that they salt the roads in Columbus. People still drive GC Subarus down there!

ShadowSix wrote: I have seen quite a few promising E30s and E36s. How much will I hate a 4-cylinder car on track? Will it be literally the slowest thing ever? I actually owned a 325e about 20 years ago and it was beautiful, but not a very fun motor. Do I need to get an "is" car to have a LSD? Was it just a standalone option like on American cars? Thanks to everyone!

You're not going to out-drag anyone on track with the M42/M44 (i.e. 1991 e30 318is or 1992+ e36 318i/is/ti), but I've always found it to be fun. It's not a torquey engine, but with a cheap chip it'll scream well over 7k and (at least e30) 318is is a very well balanced car.

I rallycross/rally a 1985 318 (with an M42 engine from a '91 swapped in) and though there are times I say "I wish I had more power" those times are almost never at rallycross. In track/tarmac the car is still fun to drive but like I said, you're not going to be making many passes on a straight, except maybe against stockish NA/NB Miatas. Maybe.

We road race a 325 - originally an ETA (m20B27) and now an "i" (M20B25) engine. The ETA was about as fast in a straight line as my 318 is (in fact, I was passed more than once on track by 318is's) and its torquey down low, but not a very fun engine. The "i" engine (or the E with the i head) are certainly more powerful and you will easily walk a 318 or Miata on straights. But there is the car balance penalty. I still prefer my 318's balance for "fun driving" in the curves and for rallycross.

Either are competitive in rallycross. In five seasons, only one 325i/e has ever beaten my 318 and that was last year when I was testing out some suspension stuff (which didn't work). And that was in about 100 tries considering we have a half dozen 6-cyl BMWs at any given event, or more. The 318i e36 that ran in PR class last year routinely took 2nd behind Shawn's very fast Miata and won a couple times before it rusted apart. Again, the 4cyl cars have the balance that rallycross likes but not the power that the track likes.

On the track, I'd say e36 325i > e30 325i > e36 318i > e30 318is > e30 325e > e30 318i (early M10 car) stock for stock.

My daily driver is a 280awhp WRX and honestly, my 140hp 318i is more fun to drive in the curvy woodland roads, if not on the highway. And I'm sayihng that as someone who really likes the WRX.

One other thing to keep in mind: Just get the cheapest low-rust e30 or e36. Engine swaps with other engines are pretty cheap and easy (especially between any e30 engines).

Most S cars shoudl have LSDs, but after all these years better check (look for the "S" stamp on the diff ratio tag on the rear case). But you can find e30 and e36 LSDs for around $300 fairly easily in a variety of ratios (I have three of them in different ratios), so buying a car with an open diff shouldn't be a deal-killer.

e36 gives the upside of five-lug wheels for better selection of cheap wheels for rallycross. That said, e30 bottlecaps are great for rallycross and are dirt cheap. Rally tires are available for the 14" wheels from several manufacturers, and snow tires in that size are like $65 for Altimax Arctics or Winterforces, which are what everyone uses. Star specs also are available in 14" sizes for track.

If you go e36, reinforce the rear subframe mounts before you do anything. They WILL crack in rallycross if you don't. e30 no real reinforcements are needed for rallycross if the car isn't rusty.

Anyhow, look in the build section here. I have a very, very long build thread from my $1000 e30 now a stage rally car with lots of details about the car. Nick (95maxrider) has a pretty extensive build thread for his e36 M3 rallycross car (though it may dissuade you once you read it) in that section as well. Check them out and you won't need to ask any more questions about e30/e36 for rallycross at least.

If you go BMW, just make sure it is as rust-free as possible. e30 key place to check is the driver's footboards under the gas pedal and the battery tray and the rear shock towers. If those areas are ok, the rest of teh car is probably ok. For e36, rear shock towers are the big danger area, as well as the subframe mounts.

So, there's the rundown on these cars more or less. I'm sure Shawn and Pete and Evan can give you a rundown of the same stuff for RX-7 and Miatas if you so desire.

One last point: the old Celicas are cool, but not fast. Nonack ran one for a season and it wasn't very fast and he bent the front control arms almost immediately. Of course there are ways to make them faster, but stock for stock they will not hang with e30/e36/Miata/RX7 in my opinion. Depends on how much you plan to mod things.

I vote first gen MR2. I can say I enjoy mine immensely in rallyx although I don't have experience to compare it to other suggestions. I do know last year a first gen mr2 took 2nd at nationals in rallyx so I believe it can be competitive.

It's light, the 4age is very nice, it's easy to work on. Normal suspension stuff is really cheap and it is a very rewarding car to drive.

In reply to Maniac0301:

Mmm, I do love AW11s...

I'll preface this with NMNA and the dreaded four-letter "r-word" is mentioned, but here's a 318ti combo pack that might be of interest. It's been posted for a few weeks, so perhaps he's ready to deal?

Everyone had fantastic suggestions, in the end it might be the sub $1k deal that you find that needs a bit of wrenching.
Personally, I always liked the E36, maybe a first year '92 with the non-vanos 2.5L 6 cyl.
LSD rear was indeed an option and you didn't need a "S" 2-door model to get it. I know because I had one.

Not mentoned yet is a '98-'01 Impreza 2 or 4 door Subie, then swap a Forester 2.5L (get the bigger twin piston front brakes as well).
Those years had the phase II 2.2L motor and the 2.5L was one of the first motor swaps I did on a N/A Subie.
You are basically making a 2.5RS from junkyard parts.
Better for RallyX but not the best for an all out track day.

irish44j wrote: So, there's the rundown on these cars more or less. I'm sure Shawn and Pete and Evan can give you a rundown of the same stuff for RX-7 and Miatas if you so desire.

Miata is obviously the answer. It will do both track and rallycross well. There is also Mazda contingency money if you plan on competing at national level events.

But you need to get a factory hardtop and have to pull a trailer if you want to swap tires at the event.

If I was shopping for a rallycross car it would probably be a E36 or rx8.

fornetti14 wrote: Not mentoned yet is a '98-'01 Impreza 2 or 4 door Subie, then swap a Forester 2.5L (get the bigger twin piston front brakes as well). Those years had the phase II 2.2L motor and the 2.5L was one of the first motor swaps I did on a N/A Subie. You are basically making a 2.5RS from junkyard parts. Better for RallyX but not the best for an all out track day.

That would throw you into Modified for rallycross. And, IMO, the 2.2 is a better rallycross engine than the 2.5, it has a lot more range. The 2.5 feels like a truck motor, it feels like the powerband goes from 3000 to 5000 and then the fun's over. Not good when you don't necessarily have the option of downshifting or upshifting.

Probably nobody mentioned it because the OP does not want an all wheel drive car.