Comfy SUV hunt

Fair warning, this is going to be a rambling post, probably self contradictory, and pointless in the end. But what the hell.

I'm selling my '96 F250 because it's just to bouncy for long distance vacation type trips with SWMBO (Carrie) and the dog, which is what I bought it to do. When I bought it we were planning on buying a 25' sailboat, hence the HD truck. Plans change, we went to the dark side and have a small powerboat now instead. It's much lighter and in no way requires that much truck (or helps smooth out the ride any).

Now I'm looking for a replacement.  Help me figure out what models I need to look at. Now, let me throw out my list of requirements and issues:

Budget : around $6000 Could be a little higher, but I know this range puts me in older or higher mileage vehicles and I'd prefer to have a decent budget to fix small issues and catch up on maintenance.

Comfortable - I'm 6'1, 250lbs, 38" waist. I want something that doesn't feel cramped or uncomfortable on a 3-4 hour run to the coast. It needs to ride comfortably and not beat you to death (this is the main failing of the pickup.) This is all subjective, but we had a '97 Explorer that was comfortable until it started to get over 225k miles. Truth be told, if I knew what I do now I never would have sold it, but here we are.  Full size isn't absolutely necessary, but midsize better be good or have other good aspects.

 Towing - Absolutely must be able to tow our boat (2000lbs with unbraked trailer ) happily and drama free while being loaded with 2 adults, a 70lb dog, a full cadre of camping gear, and 2 mountain bikes.  I don't tow my Mustang currently, but something that could tow it on a flat trailer in an emergency would be a plus. So figure a rating of 5-6000lbs for the minimum with 7500+ preferred. The other thing that is required is 4wheel antilock brakes, preferrable discs all around. After a couple experiences with the 250 towing in the rain, I won't buy anyhting that doesn't have 4wheel ABS. The rear axle ABS on a lightly loaded pickup is scary. This means no square body F150s, which makes me sad.

Bike storage - I mountain bike at least twice a week after work, so I bring my bike with me to work. Room for at least 1 bike in tha back is a necessity. With the Explorer with the seats I could remove the seatpost/saddle and front wheel, then back the bike in and secure the front fork in fork traps at the rear gate. This allowed me to put up to 3 bikes in the back with riding gear, or 2 bikes with camping gear and a dog. The bike I have now has a dropper seatpost so I can't remove it easily but I can lower it. Overall I need about 34" in height and 62" in length to store it upright. But this whole thing is somewhat flexible. If I can lay that bike down in the back day to day (not stand it up) when I'm by myself, I'm willing to use exterior racks when vacationing or hauling multiple bikes/riders. The other thing that made the Exploder nice was the completely flat, smooth load deck with the seats down. Less crap to get teh bike hung up on when laying it down.

4x4 vs 4x2 - Do I NEED 4x4? No. I've never even spun a wheel on a boat ramp with a long bed, 2wd, unlocked diff truck. BUT I've never owned a 4x4 and I think it would be fun to get further off on the local forest service roads with some confidence, plus it lends some confidence launching the boat. A good LSD rear, 2wd vehicle is a close second, and an unlocked 2wd SUV is ok if it's in good shape and the right money. 

Now...here are the models I've been considering:

Jeep Grand Cherokee, ZJ or WJ, V8 4wd. - I haven't driven one yet, but I think this is going to be a lot like my old V8 Explorer with a good 4x4 system and a little less space. They're cheap, sound fairly reliable, and I'm willing to trade some interior space for the capability.  The big question is how comfortable they'll be to drive and I won't know till I drive one. I have a test drive lined up on one this weekend. I think this is the fun, exciting option that might not really be the best one overall.

Ford Expedition, 2003 - 2006 or maybe 97-02 with low enough mileage. I've test driven 2 '06 models. On the 2nd gen ones I don't find the leather seats to be all that comfortable, and the interior design isn't great, plus they aren't holding up well inside. The 2nd row seats aren't flat when folded so it kills the upright bike storage and makes laying one down a slightly larger PITA because it's not flat. The older 1st gen has the same issue with the 2nd row but I think I might like the seats better since I like the ones in my 96 F250 so much. Finding one that's not beat to death is rare, but they're cheap when you do.  The 5.4s have some issues as they age, but with a towing package (rarer than you'd think) they can easily tow the Mustang. Even the lowest rated 3.31 axle, 4.6L meets my minimums. Ideal? maybe a 2002 4x4 5.4L XLT with cloth seats, Tow Pack, and 150k miles?  In general I'm a Ford guy, so some kind of Expy is a strong contender although I don't like them as much as I expected.  Navigator also a possibility but the first gens are ass-end ugly.

Tahoe, Yukon -maybe 99-2002 or 3? I'm a Ford guy so I don't know spec details off the top of my head. These have a great, fold-flat 2nd row design and plenty of height in the back for my bikes.  I haven't driven one yet, so I have no idea on ergonomics and seats. I've sat in a couple and...I'm not a huge fan of the dash and interior design? Maybe I'm just a not down with GMs? Also not a fan of the exteriors, really, but I suspect they may ride better than the fords. Tahoes around here seem to hold more value and still be more beat up than the same year Expys, too.

Suburban, Yukon XL 99-2002 or 3 - Solves the cargo issue by leaps and bounds but it's as big as the F250. Something a little smaller would be nice. Probably the best combo of ride and towing out there, but it seems kind of silly to drive around with one person and one bike most of the time (unlike a long bed diesel F250?) I do seem to feel better about Suburbans than Tahoes (go figure) and a well kept 4x4 one might very well seduce me.  Haven't driven one yet.

Toyota Sequoia - Possible but kind of rare in my market. I was fairly impressed with one I looked at a while back but didn't drive. Definitely still interested in these. Would love the 4x4 version but they are REALLY rare here.

Land Cruiser? Sure, but the ones in my price range are beat up and HIGH mileage, even for a Cruiser. Otherwise, same general notes as the Grand Cherokee.

Jeep Cherokee (not Grand) - The ones I've ridden in weren't that comfortable and the I6 might struggle with ful load and towing. They're the fun choice that I think I'd regret.

Explorer - a really low mile version of the one I had would fit the bill but that's unlikely and I would feel like an idiot buying it since I sold one we had for 15 years. The later models were absolute crap on transmissions, not doing that.

4-runner - I HATE the low seat, feet-out-front position that these have. Plus they're too expensive for what they are.

X-Terra - I've had several friends with these. They were dependable but rode rough and interior space was really bad for what they are. Also, I hate Nissans.

Pathfinder - see X-Terra

Trailblazer, GM clones - Yeah...no.

Mini van - Realistically the best solution to my needs, but I haven't given up on life. Yet. So no.

Full size van - only if I found a REALLY cool one. I'm not sure as an over 40, childless man I'm legally safe driving a full size van around. Plus most of the ones I've driven were crap and they're a bitch to work on. But not out of the question.

Pick-up - If I could find a 4dr, 6.5' bed F150 in my price range, this would be a great option. But that ain't likely, they're really rare.  The normal 4dr, short bed model is barely long enough for the bikes, and I've only seen a couple 4.6L models in my price range. Extended cabs in the late 90s early 2000s weren't really big enough for us and the dog. Chevy trucks? ehh..they're always garbage heaps around here in this price range, plus did I mention I'm a Ford guy?

So...discuss. What have I missed? Any insights on the models above?

EDIT: Good Lord I've written a dissertation.

Gen 3 Mitsubishi Montero. 5k lb tow rating, easily under your budget, plenty of interior room. 

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/2001-mitsubishi-montero/6334197654.html

In reply to EvanB :

Interesting. How's the reliability on Monteros? Better than other Mitsus? 

Definitely the only Mitsubishi I would buy. My 95 has been very reliable but I have not experienced a Gen3. 

I've been driving a WK Grand Cherokee ('05) for a couple of years now and you should definitely check them out if you come across a decent example. I'm a bit bigger than you and while I admit that there isn't much extra room I have found it to be just the right size for most things. Mostly use it to run my young daughter around, road trips and frequent excursions on the beach and dirt roads trails.

My biggest caveat is that there is a wide range of difference in the trim levels when it comes to creature comforts and towing confidence. Mine is a loaded limited with the 5.7 hemi and I wouldn't have bought a lower trim or engine choice. I love a great stereo, heated leather, memory seats and the adjustable pedals are clutch for my wife, etc... . It tows 4-5k like it isn't there, often drags people out of deep sand or mud without fuss and has never gotten me stuck (3" lift, bilstein HDs and good A/T tires do help...). Note that they are all 4x4 but there are different systems on different trims. I don't do dogs or bikes but it currently has my daughter's recaro sport infant seat, (4) new 31" tires plus all of my off road gear neatly tucked behind the front two seats. 

I think I paid $6k for it with 100k miles on it and it needed a couple 02 sensors plus other small maintenance stuff since then but has been generally worry free for 40k miles.

You know my response from the other thread. I do exactly what you are talking about with my Xterra right down to a tee and I'm about the same size at 6'1 220.

It lacks the sophistication of the rest of the list but it's up to the task and easy to clean the mud out from biking. I love it. About ready to do similar upgrades to what Keith is doing so I can be ready to tackle the Colorado trails next summer.

EvanB said:

Gen 3 Mitsubishi Montero. 5k lb tow rating, easily under your budget, plenty of interior room. 

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/2001-mitsubishi-montero/6334197654.html

I bought one. I love it.  That one is a bargain!  That looks like a $5k Montero so if bought for $2.5k you have a lot of room to make improvements and still be "within value". 

Does call for premium fuel and only returns 15-19 mpg. 

We were very comfortable on our 1500mile round trip vacation which was  5 hour stints of hyw. 

To me, it looks identical to the 2005 and newer Lexus GX SUV which is to say it still looks contemporary even though 17 years old.  More stout that all other Mitsubishis. This is/was their international top of the line model (still sold in other countries). Was $40k when new, 17 years ago. 

Get the Suburban.  Find yourself something like a '02-'05 Z-71 package and just enjoy.  Seriously, these things just work, they're the Miata of SUVs (the Answer).

Can you get early GM Lambdas (Acadia, Enclave, Traverse) in that price range yet?  They can tow 5k pounds, can be had with AWD, and will deliver much better fuel mileage and driving experience than anything truck-based.  They probably depreciate like rocks, too, as typical nondescript mid-2000s GMs.

EvanB said:

Gen 3 Mitsubishi Montero. 5k lb tow rating, easily under your budget, plenty of interior room. 

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/d/2001-mitsubishi-montero/6334197654.html

As far as comfort, I drove mine 5000 miles in a week and it was comfortable the whole time. The Gen 3 is more refined and I imagine would be even better. 

Tom_Spangler said:

Can you get early GM Lambdas (Acadia, Enclave, Traverse) in that price range yet?  They can tow 5k pounds, can be had with AWD, and will deliver much better fuel mileage and driving experience than anything truck-based.  They probably depreciate like rocks, too, as typical nondescript mid-2000s GMs.

Horrid reliability. I know. I work on them for a living. Engine typically needs timing chains, drinks oil as fast as fuel, or explodes altogether by 100K miles. Shortly afterwards, the transmission needs to be completely overhauled. And they get pretty poor fuel mileage, so bad that GM was reimbursing customers because of how far off the EPA estimate they were getting. Like, 17-18mpg. 

A few things I notice in the Montero ad. 

• It has the optional rear AC. I do not. I'm okay here without it but I'm not in Atlanta. Nice to have.  Noticed by black controls on the back of the center console. 
• Missing spare tire. Where is that alloy? 
• Rear wiper is parked in the wrong position, should be up. Broken? 
• The factory antenna would be a power retractable unit on the fender. This one has a black fixed mast. I suppose that is the easiest fix if the power stops working. 

After doing some research on the Montero, that could be a possibility. If the GC I'm supposed to go look at Saturday falls through I may see if I can take a look at this one. I appreciate the inside info to check. Any failure points to check? It looks like the rear seats fold down and flip up for a flat floor. Is that correct?

Also made me think that a Trooper might be another possibility. I know there are some Trooper fans on here. How are they towing? Any failure points to be aware of?

ultraclyde said:

 It looks like the rear seats fold down and flip up for a flat floor. Is that correct?

 

That is correct. 

Seats:  

3rd row does a stow and go type flip leaving you a flat floor in the cargo area.  The 3rd seat can also be easily removed completely leaving you a giant, covered and concealed, storage bin in the floor!  

The pic is actually from the Gen4 Montero (named Pajero in other countires) but the function is the same.  

Second row folds like this. I am not sure but I think tools are needed to completely remove the rear seat.  Unfortunately, the floor space that is left with the 2nd row folded and still in the car is not enough for me to lay down at 6'1" tall. 

I can speak to some of my experience with the Jeep SUV's:

XJ Cherokee:

I've owned a couple of these and they are probably my favorite Jeep SUV. However, I don't suspect it'll meet many of your criteria. You're correct in assuming it's a fun vehicle, but it's a little cramped and (in my experience) not the best at towing. I used mine to pull a few vehicles on a tow dolly and while it did the job, you could tell that it was struggling a bit. The short wheelbase doesn't help in this regard either. 

WJ Grand Cherokee:

Mine was a 4.0 and 2wd, but I still survived. Definitely a big step up over the XJ in the comfort department, and I can attest to the fact that you can fit a mountain bike in there upright. I mounted a fork trap on the upper portion of the 2nd row seatback, so when I needed to transport my bike I would fold down the seat and lock the fork in.  I didn't do any towing with this, but I suspect if you had one with a V8 you shouldn't have much issue. I would recommend finding a later model year WJ (02-04), but do a bit of reading on some of the known issues. There are a few things that are known to fail and they are well documented on various forums.

WK Grand Cherokee:

I've only owned mine for a few months, but I agree with Tb's assessment. The price range seems to be huge based on year, trim level, and engine. I've seen plenty of good examples in your price range, and some that were listed well over twice your budget. Seems that one of these would be worth consideration. 

If serious about Montero, spend some time at Expedition Portal - Montero 

Good Info here all around.  

I think ive asked about these before, but what about the Jeep Commanders? Seem to be problematic as I remember...

Minivan.  They are pretty much made for gobbling up miles in comfort.  During much of 2016 I commuted from Philly up to Portsmouth, NH once or twice a month. A 5.5 to 8 hr drive each way, depending on route and traffic. My minivan was perfect for this.

A 2000 lb boat is nothing.  Any minivan could tow that without issue.

I have a van mainly to haul my mtn bikes around.  My bikes are worth more than the van.

A full size conversion van is even better, but unless you can luck into a rare diesel version, the MPG penalty is pretty heavy.  My '08 Grand Caravan gets in the low-mid 20's in average driving. My old '90 E-150 raised roof conversion van would get in the mid teens.  

I am also a single guy in my late 40's. Yes, the "free candy" jokes are pretty much non-stop.  I don't care. 

The only reason I'm replacing my GC is a desire for another full-size van that will be better for camping.  After years (literally) of searching, I finally stumbled onto an extended length, raised roof, diesel conversion  van.  I'm still driving the GC since putting miles on it means nothing to the value and we're currently in the middle of deer season and I won't care as much if Bambi decides to commit suicide during my 100 mile commute through wooded PA/NJ suburbia.

The only other SUV option I'd consider is a Element.  Also great for bike hauling.

The Tahoe is basically a chopped Suburban, with its shorter wheelbase and body. Otherwise, parts are more or less interchangeable. I’m a huge Suburban fan; I’ve owned several, and always have at least one in the stable. My current daily is an 89 Burb, and it just works. No muss, no fuss. 

In reply to Recon1342 :

Yup! I drive a 2005 Yukon Denali XL with the 6.0 and AWD I paid $3,500 for with 185,000 miles. GMT-800 suv’s are where its at!

Toyota Highlanders, despite being a bit of a softroader, can be hand in the price range with the tow package and will do what you're asking.

I have a second gen X-Terra and it's been fairly bulletproof (not literally as that was tested and not by me) it does ride a bit rough but parts are dirt cheap and they're easy to work on.

One other thing to consider, with the increased distraction and stupidity of the other drivers out there, in the inevitable collision: size helps.  And the 'burb is big.  

Another vote for Gen3 montero. They are available for a song and are super luxurious inside. I had a 2003 20th anniversary edition that I sold to someone on here actually.

Obscenely capable for a "soft roader" I followed jeeps and land rovers etc on a pretty sweet expedition trip no problem. The front seats recline all the way flat to the back seats also sort of making a sleeping platform.

And surprisingly it had REALLY good brakes for a mid size SUV. Also the interior was so nice that to replace it I ended up with a mercedes because everything else I looked at (even accords with leather etc) felt like a downgrade. My cousins jeep actually popped his transfer case and got it stuck in neutral and I had to tow him out of here. So if I was towing sub 5k I would absolutely own another one. Plus then you get to own the winningest chassis in the history of the Dakar. If towing more GMT800 is where its at