Neighbor around the corner from me had a 328i, he's a fellow LeMons car builder so he's not exactly lacking in automotive knowledge. He bought his 328 with ~80k miles on it and within 2 years had spent ~$3500 with AutoHauz etc on parts alone keeping it running. He got rid of it after the engine cooling fan self destructed, said he was tired of working on it every weekend.
Curmudgeon wrote: Neighbor around the corner from me had a 328i, he's a fellow LeMons car builder so he's not exactly lacking in automotive knowledge. He bought his 328 with ~80k miles on it and within 2 years had spent ~$3500 with AutoHauz etc on parts alone keeping it running. He got rid of it after the engine cooling fan self destructed, said he was tired of working on it every weekend.
With such low miles it probably sat for a while. Where did the $3500 go? I literally cannot conceive of an E36 needing $3500 in parts unless it was severely messed up.
The clutch fan is a common failure point, there is a super easy e-fan update he obviously didn't research. I wonder if he researched anythng at all, or was just throwing money at random parts.
I find it weird that you virtually never see someone who's had firsthand bad experience with a BMW, it's always a friend or brother in law or whatever.
I can't comment too much on the BMW vs. Merc debate, but I am very familiar with the W124 chassis Mercedes.
It was already mentioned that parts are readily available, but I really have to reiterate. Every. Part. Is. Available. I am continually amazed at how easy it is to get what I seek for my wife's '95 E320. While it is easy to work on and the factory service manuals are posted online, ours has needed almost nothing. Very reliable transportation.
Biodegradeable wiring harnesses can be an issue, but you can just buy a new harness (that isn't biodegradeable) and spend 45 minutes plugging it all in. I've spotted some crumbly insulation, so I have a harness sitting on the shelf awaiting install.
Build quality and interior quality is very impressive, but driving experience is somewhat mundane. A little bit Buick as much as it pains me to say so. I am planning on doing the full Sportline suspension upgrade (again, parts are available!), so I can report back on any improvements.
I have just enough first hand experience with German cars to send me scurrying to Japanese stuff. 
I have previously recounted my GTi experience.
Craig's 328 had to have a radiator, a valve cover (it cracked, leaking oil like a sieve and is the second one I've seen do that, the other one I repaired for a friend in my back yard) various ignition bits and pieces, a clutch (ok, that was probably his doings) along with various other odds and ends. Both of those 328's had power steering lines which failed and due to the crappy design of the quick disconnect were absolute bastards to replace.
My brother's 1988 or 1989 318is also needed a fair amount of engine work at pretty low mileage, IIRC ~45k. That was circa 1993.
SlickDizzy wrote: I find it weird that you virtually never see someone who's had firsthand bad experience with a BMW, it's always a friend or brother in law or whatever.
I agree 100%. I would love to see that $3500 bill for parts, a lot of people like to brag over the money they spend ... It makes no sense.
I have owned 3 BMWs, i have not spent that much on all three combined.
J
BMWs are a luxurious sporty car. Mercedes are a sporty luxury car, if you get the difference.
DDing a 95 bmw 318ti now. Just crossed 220k. Had a bunch of PO hacks done to it and some neglect - but that was expected for the price. Catching up on maintenance stuff has been about $1200 over 2 years. One of the easiest cars I've had to work on. At 18 years old, I expect some stuff to wear out, but no complaints. It stranded me once - fuel pump - but the pump gave me fair warning before it completely died. Mine should have died of rust, but I decided to keep it going and patched it up.
In reply to Argo1:
Each is trying to be the other, and its more less ruined the both of them. That and it would appear both hired a lot of bean counters in the late 80s.
Some where in that time period MB had serious quality issues.
That being said I have a jones for mid 2000 ish s500. I have come to like the more modern styling of these cars but they are not the space ship from the evil empire look that todays MB's have.
I also lived with an 87 560sel for a while. Good car for what it was. The only issue I had with the 1st one is it kept killing the ECU. The dealer replaced it 3x-4x (I don't remember exactly) and finally took the car back and gave me a replacement car (lemon law). I sold the car a year or so after that as I had to get a house.
Looking at s500's and 740's I think you can get the equivalent amount of car with a 740 for several thousand dollars less with all things being equal.
i think that's partially because things get very expensive on those s-classes, like the air over shock suspension on all 4 corners that hurts (though nowhere nears as pricey as A8 air suspension
)
Ok, curve ball... What about the same era Jaguars, anything in common as far as biodegradable electronics, stupid-money on parts? Parts availability? Sporty vs. luxury grades?
SlickDizzy wrote:Curmudgeon wrote: Neighbor around the corner from me had a 328i, he's a fellow LeMons car builder so he's not exactly lacking in automotive knowledge. He bought his 328 with ~80k miles on it and within 2 years had spent ~$3500 with AutoHauz etc on parts alone keeping it running. He got rid of it after the engine cooling fan self destructed, said he was tired of working on it every weekend.With such low miles it probably sat for a while. Where did the $3500 go? I literally cannot conceive of an E36 needing $3500 in parts unless it was severely messed up. The clutch fan is a common failure point, there is a super easy e-fan update he obviously didn't research. I wonder if he researched anythng at all, or was just throwing money at random parts. I find it weird that you virtually never see someone who's had firsthand bad experience with a BMW, it's always a friend or brother in law or whatever.
the fan is a common failure that usually has it's roots in the engine/trans mounts. There is not a lot of space between the fan and the housing, so any slop in the mounts and it will make contact. That same slop can also make for the (in)famous "money shift"
A family member has a 90 something 300E, I driven in a few times. IMHO not worth what all the work that I hear is being put into it unless you want the "status" of driving what was a rich people's car 
SlickDizzy wrote: I find it weird that you virtually never see someone who's had firsthand bad experience with a BMW, it's always a friend or brother in law or whatever.
How about the opposite, with it being an uncle?
My uncle hasn't been without a BMW - or two - since 1969('67?). I can't recall him ever having trouble with any of them. He had a '91 318is, since new, forever. Being his primary winter car, it finally succumbed to cancer, a couple years ago. The only major work that it ever got was new fuel and brake lines, as they rusted through.
^What they say^
I've got an e36 M3 w/ about 90k of which I did about 30, and an e39 525iT (manual!) which I bought w/ 88k and I've only done about 4k.
My parents have an 88 or 89 w124 300e they bought in 91 or 92. It only has something like 52k miles.
The M3 has been very reliable - it was street the first couple years, and has gradually skewed toward track. The past couple years it's track only - maybe I'll drive it to work a couple times a year. As such it sees infrequent extremely hard use, and gets lots of maintenance.
The 525 needed a clutch shortly after I got it. It got that and a round of fluids. I replaced the display in the OBC, and the headlight assemblies w/ Hella xenons I picked up cheaply.
My expectation it that - properly maintained, and given the same level of proactive care I give all my vehicles - It will be as reliable as everything else I've owned.
I just did a full service+pads+rotors+tires on the Benz for my 'rents. The W124 is really nice to work on. It's been reliable, but they time out on service intervals rather than by accrued mileage. When I picked it up to bring it home to work on it it was running really poorly. After I went over everything, plugs, wires, filters, all fluids, brakes, tires, I put in fresh gas and took it for a long, hard romp. It felt great afterward.
Also - re. "reliability". I insist that the driver's level of "mechanical sensitivity" is a factor. There are people who never have an unreliable car. Once I grew up and began paying attention, and proactively maintaining, I never had another unreliable car.
mtn wrote:LanEvo wrote: 1993 was the last year for old-school, over-engineered Benz quality. And things really took a nose-dive after the Chrysler merger 1998.No, 1995 for the W124 chassis.
Agreed. The 201/124 are the last of the simple, quality MB's. I have had 210, 202, and 124's.
If you are looking for something to modify, the BMW is the choice. That said, I presently drive a 202 with some simple mods. Lowered, wheels, some suspension work. I have my eyes on a convertible E36, but I doubt that will happen.
There are plenty of web vendors selling most MB parts at good prices. You may have to shop around, but as long as you don't need any of the small "dealer only" trinkets, your spending will be reasonable.
That said, there are two issues to be aware of. The first is the early 722.6/NAG-1 5 speed automatics. MB used a plain bushing between the input and output shafts. I believe this was changed sometime in 2000, but I may be wrong. With the lack of fluid changes, and the lack of a proper bearing, slop develops between the two shafts. This in turn causes the destruction if the roller thrust bearing. When this bearing fails, the rollers and the broken cage end up in the center planetary gearset. The shafts can be replaced, but the price is over $1300.00 for the set. Then you need the planetary set, and all the other hard parts.
The other biggie is the balance shaft gear failure of the early M272 V engines. Very expensive to repair. I am not too familiar with this issue, as I have never had any of the later cars.
ebonyandivory wrote: Ok, curve ball... What about the same era Jaguars, anything in common as far as biodegradable electronics, stupid-money on parts? Parts availability? Sporty vs. luxury grades?
The X300 XJ6 is generally a fairly good car. It has a few issues; the electric motor which adjusts the steering column, IIRC there is an electric motor in the heater somewhere that goes out to but otherwise pretty good cars. The X350 XJ has a few known issues. The pre-00 had weak timing chain tensioners (which were improved after that time), the Niksal cylinder liners (but if that problem has shown up by now it shouldn't because of the reduced sulfur in fuel), the transmission in the standard XJ8 isn't the strongest (but it is a fairly common one so finding a replacement isn't terribly expensive or hard, it shouldn't e too bad if properly maintained, XJR got a much stronger one). There is also a problem with the throttle body getting gummed up with carbon. The post-00 fixed the timing chain tensioner and the Niksal cylinder liner. If you can find a pre-00 with a replaced timing chain tensioner I wouldn't worry to much. There are a few good buyer's guides out there if you search google for X300 and X350 buyer's guide.
I have noticed finding a Jag with full maintenance history seems to be easier the BMW or Mercedes but that might just be cause it is easier to find a BMW or Mercedes. I would avoid the S-Type since it is just a dressed up Lincoln LS and it is kinda a POS.
What look to be nice XJ6's from the mid to late 90's can be had on my local Craig's list for around 4K for a decent one. 3K will get you a runner. Less than that and you are spending $$$ to fix them. But I have driven these cars and it is a love it / hate it thing with these. I happen to really like them. They seem like good value for the $$$$. I have no idea about parts or rust.
ditchdigger wrote: Mercedes parts are mind bogglingly available. I am finishing up an engine rebuild/underhood restoration on a 71 280SE 3.5 and am constantly shocked at how easy it has been to find every single part and piece. From wiring harness clips to underhood plastics to sound deadening pieces. Everything is just one or two calls away. This is a very expensive car and the parts are too. That said I kind of hate driving Mercs. They are just isolated and awful. Like driving a sensory deprivation device. No connected to the road feel, and trying to find one with a manual transmission is futile. Plus I think they are ugly. I hate the 1930's style chrome tombstone grill on an otherwise modern sedan. I love driving BMW's and never had a problem finding anything for them. My vote is BMW
That right there. Completely different approaches over the year. One is a Strato-Cruiser to pamper you in luxury and the other is for driving.
Both have their place depending on what you want
motomoron wrote: The M3 has been very reliable - it was street the first couple years, and has gradually skewed toward track. The past couple years it's track only - maybe I'll drive it to work a couple times a year. As such it sees infrequent extremely hard use, and gets lots of maintenance.
No no no. Tell them it blows up and the cooling systems blow up if you look sideways at them. And uh..the chassis' rip apart on their own and uh uh uh....
Anything to keep the reputation alive so I can pick up E36s cheap all day long. :)
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