Competition for the 818? Catfish

Better yet, I wish they would have used this headlight design for the ND!

kreb wrote: Comparing the two is a very interesting study. The Exocet, especially in track configuration is built like a brick E36 M3house compared to the Catfish, and in the event of a significant impact there's no question that's where I'd rather be. That said, they're really apples and oranges. "overpriced" is purely a subjective. If you value smooth features over the jungle-gym aesthetic, it may not matter how inexpensive the Exocet may be. You could make the case that Cobra replicas are extremely overpriced, yet most owners wouldn't trade their cars for an Exocet and $15k cash.

Agreed on the pricing. As for the safety aspect, there is a version with a NASA/SCCA approved cage. Not the setup shown on the white car earlier in this thread, I'll see if I can get some pics or renders.

The more I see of the catfish the more I want. The 818 left me cold after the design was done. I had been planning on an exocet and making my own body. Now I'm torn between that and this.

Did I mention the flat bottom? I mean, usually a flat bottom is nothing to brag about. But it is in this case.

This car looks cool but isn't the cost about the same as a factory five cobra kit?

Roughly.

Keith Tanner wrote: Did I mention the flat bottom? I mean, usually a flat bottom is nothing to brag about. But it is in this case.

Why is there such a large gap between the flat bottom piece and the fender? This is a preproduction model? Looks good though.

plance1 wrote: This car looks cool but isn't the cost about the same as a factory five cobra kit?

Wouldn't surprise me if a stock NB Catfish would beat a stock pushrod 5.0 FF on most tracks.

plance1 wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Did I mention the flat bottom? I mean, usually a flat bottom is nothing to brag about. But it is in this case.

Why is there such a large gap between the flat bottom piece and the fender? This is a preproduction model? Looks good though.

The diffuser is three dimensional, the top surface has a different arc than the bottom and is a bit narrower. That could be what you're seeing. It's also possible we didn't put it in the exact perfect place. The shut lines on the visible body panels are excellent. I suspect that for ultimate efficiency, you'd want a wall down the outer sides of the diffuser anyhow.

kreb wrote:

plance1 wrote: This car looks cool but isn't the cost about the same as a factory five cobra kit?

Wouldn't surprise me if a stock NB Catfish would beat a stock pushrod 5.0 FF on most tracks.

It would be an interesting race, that's for sure. You could be right. I think the Miata suspension is more sophisticated and the car is about 300 lbs lighter, but I have to admit that I'm not that up on Fox chassis stuff.

It's a good alternative to the FF cars. For some, the simple fact that it's not a snake is a plus. Different running gear, different suspension, a smaller size, lighter weight, better aero, etc - choice is good.

I really like the Cat fish and the Exocet too. I've been working on a space frame for Miata parts for some time (a hobby) and have a one of a kind 1964 Can Am style body that I"m modifying to fit it. I have a stock NA that I drive the heck out of and love.

I see that a lot of people interested in the Exocet, and I assume Cat fish, want big power. I wonder if that is what is wanted, why not build a car using C5 or newer Corvette parts. The parts are good, reasonable, readily available, and are intended for V8 power. I've built a number of cars using both C4 and C5 parts. My Cobra uses C5 parts in a frame that built. And, the car in my profile uses C5 parts as well. For that car I kept the stock C5 wheelbase, moved the engine rearward and kept the 6 speed transaxle. It uses 2 fuel tanks. The one on the top feeds one that is flush with the bottom the car. It mounts in the large backbone trans tunnel.

The black frame is under the car in my profile. The other is my Cobra chassis.
[URL=http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/jmcbigbelly/media/c5speedsterroller_zpsc77be13e.jpg.html][/URL][URL=http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/jmcbigbelly/media/C5aluminumcobra_zpsec925fa1.jpg.html][/URL]

JMC14: There's a lot of good things to be said about your car, but it's kind of an apples and oranges thing. The Exocet, 818 and Catfish represent a coming of age for the american kit car industry. They are not stylistic interpretations of a historic car. They are unique designs that are well engineered and finished and can be done at a relatively inexpensive price point by someone with modest mechanical skills.

Your creations OTOH, while impressive, strike me as more along the lines of a Brunton Stalker - which was very much a creation of a talented, and a tad quirky individual. Nothing wrong with that at all, but as I say, apples and oranges. Also, I think that the builder would be hard pressed to build one of your designs for under 20k. Many things are pricier, from the sheer size of the car, to the donor, to the tires...

It's just the nature of internet commenters. People always reach for the extremes in their imagination, and of course that's what they post about online. It's the same reason we've always got phone calls for 300 rwhp Miatas - because people read that 250 is easy to attain and is thus "common" in their minds, so they just ratchet up to the next level. Then they discover that the price tag has gained an extra zero at the end...

In reality, most Exocets and Catfish are being built with the original Miata drivetrain. Some get turbos, which are an easy and well-proven addition to the engine. But of the Catfishes in existence right now (about a half dozen that are mobile), only two have turbos and none have V8s. For the Exocet, there's a lot of chatter about building with a V8 (and a couple of high profile ones underway) but we're only talking about maybe 5% of the cars being built. The V8 one we built was the first V8 one built on a US frame to turn a wheel, I think.

jmc14 wrote: I really like the Cat fish and the Exocet too. I've been working on a space frame for Miata parts for some time (a hobby) and have a one of a kind 1964 Can Am style body that I"m modifying to fit it. I have a stock NA that I drive the heck out of and love. I see that a lot of people interested in the Exocet, and I assume Cat fish, want big power. I wonder if that is what is wanted, why not build a car using C5 or newer Corvette parts. The parts are good, reasonable, readily available, and are intended for V8 power. I've built a number of cars using both C4 and C5 parts. My Cobra uses C5 parts in a frame that built. And, the car in my profile uses C5 parts as well. For that car I kept the stock C5 wheelbase, moved the engine rearward and kept the 6 speed transaxle. It uses 2 fuel tanks. The one on the top feeds one that is flush with the bottom the car. It mounts in the large backbone trans tunnel. The black frame is under the car in my profile. The other is my Cobra chassis. [URL=http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/jmcbigbelly/media/c5speedsterroller_zpsc77be13e.jpg.html][/URL][URL=http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/jmcbigbelly/media/C5aluminumcobra_zpsec925fa1.jpg.html][/URL]

this guy's my hero!

Rendering of the windshield that's under development.

Sexy rendering. Are there plans for roll hoop fairings and integrated side exhaust, or was that just to dress up the illustration?

What does the catfish weigh finished? What does the miata engine and tranny weigh?

Is this thing street legal? Or can it be made street legal? I don't see any turn signals for example. I suppose I could always take the turn signal stalks off my motorcycles and glue them on the body...

Keith Tanner wrote: It's a good alternative to the FF cars. For some, the simple fact that it's not a snake is a plus. Different running gear, different suspension, a smaller size, lighter weight, better aero, etc - choice is good.

Not a snake is definitely a plus for me. The cobra is iconic, but for me it carries a certain stigma. I'm not interested in one, but a Catfish has been on my radar since the early drawing days when Bauer first threw it out there.

plance1 wrote: Is this thing street legal? Or can it be made street legal? I don't see any turn signals for example. I suppose I could always take the turn signal stalks off my motorcycles and glue them on the body...

Legality is really a question of what is required for where you live. Some places require a windshield and windshield wiper along with turn signals, emissions, etc. Others aren't as stringent, some are more stringent.

Roll hoop fairings are underway.
Integrated side exhaust is standard - see pic.

Ours weighs 1750 lbs with a turbo.

Yes, street legal. Front turn indicators are by the headlights (the small lenses in the above photo) and the tails are dual brightness LEDs - very visible. The silver/orange car is road registered in California without shenanigans. The windshield (and associated hardware, such as wipers) will make it easier to register in some states. I'll admit that our blue car doesn't have mirrors yet, which we need to do. It's not yet been registered in CO, but we know what's required.

This is the first I've seen the Catfish. I approve.

Sidenote: for me personally the winner is the Factory Five 33 Hotrod because you can mount fenders and a hardtop. If I can't drive it to work or wherever and lock it up and let it get rained on I'm not interested, yet. Somday maybe a sunny day track toy but right now I want multi purpose.

Thanks Kreb and keith for the comments and input. I freely admit to being quirky. I have fun building things my way. I wan't suggesting that my builds would be the basis for a viable kit. Just that the C5 Vette would be a good donor. A quick search of Ebay shows several complete rollers for 6-8K. The engine bolts into the front aluminum suspension cradle, a torque tube connects the engine to the transaxle that's bolted into the rear cradle. For that money you get an aluminum V8, 6speed transaxle, wheels, tires, brakes, fuel tanks, steering, wiring, pedals, ect. I wanted to push the "buy it now" button and build an EXO frame for it. But, I'm facing open heart surgery after having 2 heart attacks this year. I'll have to wait and see how that works out.

I really like the Catfish rendering with the windshield. Looks great.