confused as berkley about SCCA regs

I'm looking into prepping Sparky (my '04 R53 Cooper S) for autocross and street driving, and I'm a bit confused as to where it would be classed. I'm planning to get a combined front strut tower brace/strut tower reinforcement plates (aka M7 Tuning strut tower brace), maybe a rear strut tower brace, and some sort of autocross-friendly slick on 16x7 rims of some sort (undecided on what rims, likely going to be 16x7" Rota RBs), and eventually mild engine mods (intake and exhaust upgrades, nothing major), and I have absolutely no idea where that would land me in terms of SCCA solo classing. I'm thinking maybe STR or STX but I honestly have no idea. the slicks might bring me up to one of the street prepared classes, I'm guessing DSP? could anyone help me out here?

If you don't run slicks, or move the cat during your exhaust mods, you can run in the ST class, but when you put on slicks, you will land in SP. Slicks are too expensive to consider at your stage in the game, and many strreet tires are nearly as good, and actually last! Should you go into the engine (i.e. cams, pistons, etc.), you would have to run SM, so it's good that you intend to leave that alone. It's a tough class. I didn't grasp that when I built Mikey, and have been getting my arse whooped ever since. I've learned that you should build to the class you would prefer to compete in.

The SCCA rule book may be as dry as toast, but if you're gonna autocross, you need to look at it as a bible during your build.

Good luck!

As long as the strut tower brace is only point-to-point, then it's cool in STX. So are rims and intake/exhaust mods. If you build for STX, I'd go with a wider rim. I think that 2WD cars are allowed an 8 or maybe even 9" wide rim in STX. More rim = more tire = more grip = more faster. You'll also want to run as wide a tire as you can within the rules (265 maybe?) from the ones in the latest GRM tire test.

If you go to R-Comps (DOT stamped, but really slicks - Hoosier A6, Kumho V710, etc.) you'll be in DSP. That opens up a lot more potential mods as well, but will be harder to have an effective dual-purpose car.

I think STX allows 245width, and some other power mods.

The funniest thing about the SCCA rules is that slicks are allowable in stock classes. That's why you sometimes see stock class cars like mine turning times comparable to the best of the ST cars.

jstein77 wrote: The funniest thing about the SCCA rules is that slicks are allowable in stock classes. That's why you sometimes see stock class cars like mine turning times comparable to the best of the ST cars.

To me this rule should be reconsidered. I have read multiple stories during the past 10 years in which a stock, softly-sprung car with R tires rolled. One event in the South Jersey region a few years ago stands out. It has been awhile, but I think it was a softly-sprung Golf with sticky tires.

R tires offer much more grip than when the decision to permit stock class cars run R tires.

The Cooper S is not eligible for ST but has great potential in STX. The cat can be moved up to 6" in STX.

If you are confused by the book, read it until you understand it. If you are serious about autocross, build your car to the letter of the rules, and you will be happy. If its just an occasional thing, build the car you want, and accept whatever class you land in.

Also be aware that the popular reduction pulley mod (or any change to the crank pulley size) puts an R53 in Street Mod or Street Mod FWD. And well, unless auto-x is the main reason to own the car, then an R53 w/o a pulley is a lot less fun.

Re: Moparman... this is a VERY dead horse...

Re: Moparman... this is a VERY dead horse...

+1. As is the "READ THE BOOK" response every time someone asks for a little help with classing. If you know the answer, isn't it just as easy to nicely say "You're probably looking at class 'x' or 'y'," as it is to be all snippy and say "Spend 3 days digging through every class and sub-class looking for your car, then looking up the allowed modifications?"

poopshovel wrote:

Re: Moparman... this is a VERY dead horse...

+1. As is the "READ THE BOOK" response every time someone asks for a little help with classing. If you know the answer, isn't it just as easy to nicely say "You're probably looking at class 'x' or 'y'," as it is to be all snippy and say "Spend 3 days digging through every class and sub-class looking for your car, then looking up the allowed modifications?"

But the simple answer of reading the book will allow you to have a clue. The first car I built was built for fun, and I had enough preparation points I was into a mod class. I was not remotely competitive, because while I had modified many things, I had not maximized those modifications. I race against people who have not read the book. They make huge whining noises when something they have done to the car moves it up a class, or makes it illegal. Had they read the book, they would know.

I suppose it's also worth mentioning that strut braces on a MINI are pure bling and have no performance value, other than making oil changes a PITA...

MINI's do very well in their respective Stock classes, but in the modified classes, they have trouble against lighter and/or more powerful (after mods) cars.

poopshovel wrote:

Re: Moparman... this is a VERY dead horse...

+1. As is the "READ THE BOOK" response every time someone asks for a little help with classing. If you know the answer, isn't it just as easy to nicely say "You're probably looking at class 'x' or 'y'," as it is to be all snippy and say "Spend 3 days digging through every class and sub-class looking for your car, then looking up the allowed modifications?"

Aside from the fact that the rulebook is VERY easy to understand if you actually take the time to read it, it's hard to offer classing advice when he isn't even sure exactly what mods he is going to do.

That being said, either pick a class abd build to those rules, or don't worry about being competitive and do the mods you want and race where you end up.

z31maniac wrote: Aside from the fact that the rulebook is VERY easy to understand if you actually take the time to read it, it's hard to offer classing advice when he isn't even sure exactly what mods he is going to do.

As somebody who has read the rulebook a couple of times, I disagree. Lots of people are put off by the parlimentary structure that many rulebooks use. Also, most classes start by saying "Entrants in XX class may use all the modifications in YY class too", which leads to a lot of cross-referencing.

Too hard? Not really, but I don't blame anybody (especially someone new to the sport) for asking for advice.

If you're too busy to help them understand, telling them to read the book more won't help either.

back ON TOPIC- The new MINI seems to be most at home in the stock classes. Tires by themselves won't change your class, but they could prohibit you from competing in the Street Touring classes. I'd suggest not modifying anything until you have a few events under your belt and a clear idea what you want from the car.

If you've got a bad itch to modify something, I'd start with a cat-back exhaust (legal in every class, even stock!), performance brake pads, drop-in aftermarket air filter, or tires/wheels. I also agree with the above poster that strut bars offer very little in terms of performance per dollar, so save that money for entry fees!

It's all well and good to ask for info on a forum and in the case of this one it's a great place to get info. However, all it takes is one wrong answer (even if well meant) to bump someone into a class they don't have a prayer of competing in. I'm a perfect example: everything I did to my street Jensen Healey (shocks, sway bars, wheels, etc) kept me in Stock class until I mentioned that I had swapped springs. Bam, I was in Street Prepared. When I put the car together, it was before I started AXing again so I had no earthly idea what I was doing.

Definitely read the book first! It will save you money and time.

As somebody who has read the rulebook a couple of times, I disagree. Lots of people are put off by the parlimentary structure that many rulebooks use. Also, most classes start by saying "Entrants in XX class may use all the modifications in YY class too", which leads to a lot of cross-referencing. Too hard? Not really, but I don't blame anybody (especially someone new to the sport) for asking for advice. If you're too busy to help them understand, telling them to read the book more won't help either.

+1. Yes, I understand the need to read the ruleset FOR YOUR CLASS, as well as all the general safety stuff, etc., but just diving into the book is like reading a freaking congressional bill. "...as allowed by appendix B section 3.02-1," and all that. Not saying there's no need to read the rules, just saying a tiny little bit of direction can eliminate a bunch of wasted time for someone looking for a little help in classing. Just sayin'.

Anyway, personally, I'd not add the weight/throw away the cash on strut towers, and spend some money on struts, a spare set of wheels and R comps, and run in GS (assuming that's still the correct class???)

poopshovel wrote: Anyway, personally, I'd not add the weight/throw away the cash on strut towers, and spend some money on struts, a spare set of wheels and R comps, and run in GS (assuming that's still the correct class???)

Mini S is in DS now.

moxnix wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Anyway, personally, I'd not add the weight/throw away the cash on strut towers, and spend some money on struts, a spare set of wheels and R comps, and run in GS (assuming that's still the correct class???)

Mini S is in DS now.

I SHOULD'VE READ THE DAMNED RULE BOOK!!!

I'm not saying, I'm just saying.

IT'S TOO DAMNED CONFUSING!!!

the main draw for the strut tower brace is the reinforcing it does to the top of the strut towers, which I would like to avoid mushrooming if it can be avoided. I had read through the wheel and tire sections of DS, and it's a bit confusing to be honest. I'm assuming that R-comps are allowed, since a bunch of people are running them, but true slicks are outlawed? also, my car has 17x7.5" R85 rims (factory option, minilite style but modernized a bit) currently, but it's a factory offered +1" rim. if I went to R-comps, would I need to go down to a 16x7" rim to stay DS legal, or can I stay at 17x7.5"? if I don't need to bump down, would it be a good idea anyway, just to save a buck or a half pound or two or increase tire choices? speaking of tire choices, does ANYONE make either a 195/55-R16 or 205/45-R17 R-compound tire? or one that would fit either a 16x7" or 17x7.5" rim? the smallest 16" tire is a 205/45-R16 and the smallest 17" is a 205/40-R17

oh, and did I mention I have this nasty habit of over-analyzing things?

Ian F wrote: Also be aware that the popular reduction pulley mod (or any change to the crank pulley size) puts an R53 in Street Mod or Street Mod FWD. And well, unless auto-x is the main reason to own the car, then an R53 w/o a pulley is a lot less fun. Re: Moparman... this is a VERY dead horse...

Not trying to beat a horse, dead or otherwise. I don't even have a horse in the race as I run FSP.

Unfortunately, few (if any) of the aftermarket strut braces will help much with mushrooming. Craven sells a top plate that (IMHO) is designed specifically to reinforce the metal. We have these on both of our MINI's.

Factory 17" wheels are legal in Stock for a MINI, although due to the weight, they are rarely seen. The 16x6.5" "X-Lite" is the most common wheel used by those who don't want to spring for SSR's. 16x7" wheels are not legal (yeah... that extra 1/2" isn't allowed...). Unfortunately, few Stock legal size wheels are available. More 17" wheels are, but again - the weight and tire costs push most towards 16".

205/45-16 is the tire size most use on MINI's in Stock class. The smaller size helps with gearing, sidewall flex and COG. What is refered to as "R-comps" are different than racing slicks. R-comps are DOT and "techanically" can be used on the street (although few do). Slicks are different... although many would argue it's all semantics.

Welcome to "over-analyzers-anonomous".... My name is Ian F.

Ian_F wrote: What is refered to as "R-comps" are different than racing slicks. R-comps are DOT and "techanically" can be used on the street (although few do).

ZOMG noes Hooser says on the tirez not to run them on teh street so how can they be stock tires if lawyers dont want them to be no fair.