Continued Education - Engineering

Hi all,

I'm looking for some input from the engineers and techs on the board. I currently have a BBA in Finance and Economics , and an Associates in Mechanical Engineering Technology.  The last 3-4 years I have had held jobs as a "Manufacturing Engineer" at 2 different companies, doing things like design optimization (from a cost and efficiency standpoint, AKA can we make this part cheaper/better, etc.),  smaller design and drafting work, CNC programming, and CMM programming and install of automotive welding cells at major manufacturing plants. 

I love that type of work, and am looking for well-regarded continuing education programs or certificates. A possibility is to finish my METech degree at a bachelor level, but as of now that is cost and time prohibitive. I mention my BBA because I think I have plenty of business background, and do not intend to further my education with a MBA. 

If anyone has suggestions for worthwhile certificates, etc. in the manufacturing/manufacturing engineering area, it'd be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks in advance for the help!

BS in Engineering.  That will open a lot of doors.

As a non degreed engineer myself, you have what I lack. A Bachelors degree of any kind, and it's in business, not something totally opposite end of the spectrum from engineering.

While your Bachelors is not in engineering, your practical experience and associates speak for themselves. I think for any return to education to be worthwhile. you'd need to be looking to get the technical requirements of the bachelors and skip the actual degree to go to a masters in engineering. 

But short of that, I'd question the value in returning to school unless you're looking to work somewhere with defined guidelines that requires the bachelors. Fortune 100 companies, goverment... etc.... 

Mazdadeuce and I have talked about what my future looks like from degree standpoints, and so have my boss and I. 

So I 100% understand where you're coming from.  

Wrong country however, Lakehead University located in Thunder Bay, ON has programs specifically designed to allow Engineering Technologists to return to school and get their Bachelors in Engineering. Many Technologists end up doing 1-2 years and come out with the B. Eng (BS Eng. or BASc or whatever each institution calls it).

Each potential student has to submit their information on education, job experience, etc., then Lakehead comes back with the requirements to graduate.

This may be worth looking into, as the US exchange rate would probably make it financially attractive. Or find US schools that do the same thing.

BTW - don't visit Thunder Bay at this time of the year. It will make Chicago seem like Florida!!!!

Anybody know... Do Canada and USA have full reciprocity wrt Engineering education?

I agree with what alfadriver and spacecadet offered above. It's hard to hear sometimes but boils down to what you really want to do. Do you really love the work and want to continue doing it - stay up to date with the technical skill you need. Some folks do it via experience and others via formal education. Are you happy with the organization you work for now and think you will be in the future? Then make yourself the "go to" guy for that employer. Figure out what skills they want and how to get them. Then prove to them you got em. 

From what I have seen a 2 year engineering degree opens doors but not at the same rate, pay or doing the same work as a 4 year - but my observations are limited to Fortune 100, some manufacturing and some government. 

There are employers that don't seem to give a rip about anything but what certifications and certificates you have. I learned that I didn't want to work for them. Frankly when I was hiring folks and they listed their certifications and training, I still wanted to know their proven capability from their experience.

Unless you really enjoy training/education (or a degree program), just make sure your investment in same will pay out given its increasing cost.

In reply to OHSCrifle :

I have no idea! Interesting thoughts above though 

A lot of my thought is that I just want to learn more things, and why not prove I learned something with some more paper if I’m taking the time to do it. 

Learning being a lifetime process, I’ll be trying to advance my knowledge no matter what! 

Anyone have knowledge of the CMfgT or CMfgE certificates? 

OHSCrifle said:

Anybody know... Do Canada and USA have full reciprocity wrt Engineering education?

Link to Professional Engineers Ontario website - Re Academic Requirements - it basically says that you have to submit information and it will be evaluated.

http://www.peo.on.ca/index.php/ci_id/index.php/ci_id/2058/la_id/1.htm

I guess my question is what's the goal? More money? Different job options? 

Once you define the goal, the path becomes more evident. The path does not always include more eduction. 

In reply to NordicSaab :

I may be moving to a different state this year, where I know no one. So, to bolster my resume. I’m lucky enough to have plenty of offers from amazing engineers with letters of recommendation, but that only goes so far. 

Not unlike buying life insurance, or saving for retirement, if you decide NOT to get that degree, 20 years from now you will be kicking yourself for that decision.

I was in similar situation many years ago, having an associate degree, working with computers, with decent job that I found rewarding.

My wife and I decided to bite the bullet and I got the BS degree.

Oh, the doors it opened for me, and the things I learned!!

Did it, and never looked back ...

I hold a Bachelor's in Automotive Technology and a Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering in Technology.  They're both ABET accredited programs and I think that I learned a lot of really good skills and concepts needed for all sorts of jobs.

That out of the way, if I had a do-over, I would get a straight Bachelor's in Electrical Engineering over the EET.  Too many HR department drones get in the way too often because they think both of my degrees are Associate's and I'm making something up.  There is *nothing* wrong with an Associate's, I'm not bad mouthing it, but it's not a fun position to be in.  There are doors that I was not able to get through, so to speak, because of the above.  

If you have the ability to go back and spend the time needed to get a four year degree, get the Mech. Engineering degree and skip the M.E.T.  Try to find a school in the same state that you got your earlier coursework done in if that helps transfer credits to make it easier to get out on a timeline you can accept.  I was up against a wall when I tried to do that and it looked like I might graduate basically the day I would have turned 30 and it just didn't seem worth it.  Now I wish I had fought harder to make that work.

My two cents, take it as such.

Well that’s the thing- I would finish my MeT in 2 years but I’d have 3-4 in my ME. And I am currently 30. 

My career path is as follows: college to get my BBA, worked in finance for ~3 years (hated it!), quit to get my AAS in METech, worked for 2 years at an automotive weld cell design/manufacture company, and started 1.5 years ago at another manufacturing company. 

I know an ME would open doors, but I’m not sure how many I need open for that amount of investment! I’d like to beef up my resume, and in general I just want to know more and be able to offer more to my current or future employers. 

Edit: I guess the best way to put it would be- I got my first job through my AAS internship. I proved to be hardworking and a quick learner so my second job came through someone I met at my first job recommending me. Now if o move across the country, these recommendations mean much less. I’d like to learn more, and have some well regarded certifications to back up what I know in the short term. The long term goal could be to return to college. 

NGTD said:

OHSCrifle said:

Anybody know... Do Canada and USA have full reciprocity wrt Engineering education?

Link to Professional Engineers Ontario website - Re Academic Requirements - it basically says that you have to submit information and it will be evaluated.

http://www.peo.on.ca/index.php/ci_id/index.php/ci_id/2058/la_id/1.htm

As far as I know, a Professional Engineer has to have a BSME not a Mech Eng Tech. Also a PE license is above and beyond just a BS degree. Two 8 hour exams and 4 years working with another PE in your field of expertise. 

PE license requirements vary by state and some 'in Tech' degrees will get you there.  It is somewhat rare though.  

To the OP, if we were to compare situations, you would be at 30 with a big difference; you're out of school and working.  I would have been 30 and just graduating and not really worked in industry outside of internships.  That seemed too long to me at the time.  Now I'm not so sure, and I may have been able to really deal with a different school and transfer my credits better than what was explained to me by a very dis-interested assistant dean that I met with on a campus visit.  It's also different in that it sounds like you want to continue to work while earning your degree.  

Just more to consider.  

russ_mill said:

Well that’s the thing- I would finish my MeT in 2 years but I’d have 3-4 in my ME. And I am currently 30. 

My career path is as follows: college to get my BBA, worked in finance for ~3 years (hated it!), quit to get my AAS in METech, worked for 2 years at an automotive weld cell design/manufacture company, and started 1.5 years ago at another manufacturing company. 

I know an ME would open doors, but I’m not sure how many I need open for that amount of investment! I’d like to beef up my resume, and in general I just want to know more and be able to offer more to my current or future employers. 

Edit: I guess the best way to put it would be- I got my first job through my AAS internship. I proved to be hardworking and a quick learner so my second job came through someone I met at my first job recommending me. Now if o move across the country, these recommendations mean much less. I’d like to learn more, and have some well regarded certifications to back up what I know in the short term. The long term goal could be to return to college. 

You're going to get older whether you get an ME or not. 

The main issue with not getting the ME is swapping industries later. Sometimes you can convince people that your experience is good enough, and sometimes you can't get a foot in the door no matter what you do without that paper. Growing up I knew a bunch of people who were engineers by title, but not by formal education in the automotive industry. They had a hard time swapping to other industries because people tended to look at the degreed engineers as engineers and the titled engineers as techs and machinists. You could move into tech and machining in other industries but that was always a significant drop in pay. 

Spacecadet and I have talked about this a bunch. The degree gives you more options than you'd have without it. Whether that pays off or not is one of the great crap shoots of life. 

I’m a CE, not a ME but do you have the ability to challenge and take the Professional Engineer exam?  That is where the real money is, and once you have it no one looks at the education anymore.

In reply to neverdone :

A PE also makes management positions viable for some reason too.

My employer (Fortune 200 OEM) considers A bachelors in either ME or MET  to be pretty much the same.

What I've noticed though, is the difference in the type of person that comes with each degree. There are fewer METs, but they nearly all seem to be much more hands on, and tend to have more practical experience which allows a deeper initial understanding of how things work. These are the "car guys", and people that grew up working on mechanical stuff. The course work to get the degree was a bit more "practical" and hands on vs the ME route too.

The ME holders have a much higher percentage of "book smart" people that are very intelligent, but they may lack the practical understanding of how an engine works or what a machine might need in order to get the desired result. There are certainly "car guys" in the ME camp as well, but they seem to represent a smaller percentage of the group as there are a bunch of people that are just good at math and spreadsheets. The course work was more theory based in school.

I have an MET degree. I'm a lab tech, which means I'm hourly, I wear clothes that can get dirty, and I do a mix of clean, computer/lab work and dirty, hands-on work.

The traditional ME guys usually end up as salaried, wear slacks and button up shirts, and spend their days going to meetings and their hands mostly get used for firing off emails and manipulating spreadsheets.

I'd consider what types of jobs you want to be considered for, and look at the courses you'd need to take to get the appropriate degree. If you're more likely to excel in a hands on environment, then MET may be the way to go. If you're better with theory, and don't mind a hands off approach, then ME might open more doors.

So are there any well-regarded certificates? 

I think the value of an MET, vs traditional ME, or ME plus PE is really driven by what you want to do career wise and what industry you are in.  While I'm a PE, I have rarely done any actual engineering, and moved into Project Management early in my career.  I work for a very large global A&E firm, to stay generic let's just say it's an ENR top 5.  I always tell our younger engineering grads, that they will eventually need to decide if they want to continue on the design side or eventually move into project management or technical department manager.  Too very distinct career paths.  In general I find that we pay better than our clients, but their benefits are typically better.

We don't place a lot of value in various technical certifications as least in my business unit, but the value of the PMP is an oft debated topic.  But we are not a manufacturer, purely an EPCM firm.

Yes, I spend most of my days attending meetings, sometimes 10 a day lately, mixed in with completing some spreadsheets, but I'm also a decent wrench :-)  There are a few of us out there.  Our office actually has quite a few car guys in it.  My boss (also a PE), is finishing up a big block Healey which sets next to his E Type.

In reply to wake74 :

 Thanks for the response! I had ran across the PMP amd was debating if that was something I wanted to work towards - I have a small amount of project management exp in my few years of engineering but nowhere near the requirements for that cert, nor did I know if it was well-regarded. 

Does anyone have experience with the CMfgE or CMfgT?  I also ran across the discontinued Engineering Technician certs from NICET, which sounded promising but were discontinued in 2005. Is there anything comparable to that? 

Subscribed for reference - my son is just starting out on a Mfg Engineering Tech BS program.  It seems like a better fit for him in the short term, as he is very much hands-on.

Whether you like it or not, there are MANY jobs out there that require a BS in any engineering.  Without that, you will hit a ceiling, whether you have experience or not, even if you have 30 years of experience of knowing something, you will always be trumped by a BS degree- including people fresh out of college.

"Book smarts" or however you want to put that is irrelevant.  People can pretend that they are smarter than young engineers with no experience for years and years, and it will not net you the promotion path you want.

The basic BS degree is a filter to even get your foot in the door.  If you don't get it, doors will stay closed.

KISS- BSME, BSEE, BSCE, BSChemE, etc.  Or BSE(ME, ect) depending on the college you are going to.  And if you add the word "Tech" to that degree, I'm pretty sure that you eliminate your possibility.

If you ever want the opportunity to be promoted to technical specialist, a BS is required.

(On the other hand, a PE isn't universally required- I've never gotten one, and don't know anyone who has one)