In reply to n8:
Yeah we screwed up that one - we didn't even think about the rules/hit to the budget when another team came asking to borrow tires...until they jumped way up in the autox standings. 
Fortunately/unfortunately their slicks didn't even fit under the Vette, so nothing changed for us.
petegossett wrote: In reply to n8: Yeah we screwed up that one - we *didn't even think* about the rules/hit to the budget when another team came asking to borrow tires...until they jumped way up in the autox standings.
First thing i wondered was how close are they to budget cap, and will they add borrowed tires/wheels to it.
I learned they will let you onto the autocross course with drag slicks on the car. I thought the old rules clearly forbid drag slicks on the course. (I also learned that drag slicks don't work well on an autocross course.)
In reply to patgizz:
Let's put it this way. The vehicle in questions autocross and concourse finish moved them way up from where they should have been. I didn't realize that the wheels they used weren't theirs until much later.
Do we know if they included the borrowed rolling stock in their budget?
Do we know that they did not?
Does including it put them over budget?
So I have a question about the challenge, coming from some of the things I've seen here. Despite budget limit, if we can ONLY afford one set of tires, would it be better to go say RE71R or drag slick? Would a decent autocross tire be good enough in the drags?
I corner worked the autox with one of the Team T-Bone's builders, I believe his name is Rich. My intent is not to throw him under the bus here, but the specific discussion is really exploding and I can offer a few details. The team was at the budget cap and sold their autocross wheels/tires from last year to fund the drag slicks. The borrowed rolling stock was not included in the budget, and it does put them over budget.
I was a little questioning about the situation when I watched them pass my autox score after attaching the borrowed tires. But Rich was so excited to see the improvement, that I decided to join him rather than complain.
In reply to RevRico:
Hoosier A7/A6 are terrible drag racing tires. Stiff sidewall autocross tires wont make good drag race tires. I've debated about a compromise and running a drag radial in the rear for both portions of the event.
In reply to Andy Neuman:
This is very true, but a "street" tire like an RE71R might be a good compromise too. The worst part about autox tires is we tend to buy them waay wide. That makes them heavy, and skews the contact patch for cornering and not for going/stoping. Even if running a skinny street tire for the drags doesn't improve your launch over an autox tire, it may very well still be faster in the drags (MUCH LESS rotating weight).
As an aside I know a young man with an LS swapped Mustang that autocrosses with Drag Radials on the rear. Not the perfect answer but...
In reply to RevRico:
We ran 275 R1s for autocross and drags. In the drags we spun first gear every run. I think we could have gotten into the 13s with drag tires. Next year we will be running drag tires on the rear.
\edit
We will be running R1s all the way around for autocross but switching the rears to drag tires for the drags. The budget hit is worth it.
/edit
That said, last year in our Miata we ran SM7s for both and had no traction issues. That's the difference between 130hp and the 340hp we brought this year.
Lof8 wrote: I corner worked the autox with one of the Team T-Bone's builders, I believe his name is Rich. My intent is not to throw him under the bus here, but the specific discussion is really exploding and I can offer a few details. The team was at the budget cap and sold their autocross wheels/tires from last year to fund the drag slicks. The borrowed rolling stock was not included in the budget, and it does put them over budget. I was a little questioning about the situation when I watched them pass my autox score after attaching the borrowed tires. But Rich was so excited to see the improvement, that I decided to join him rather than complain.
Wow.
Pat wrote:Lof8 wrote: I corner worked the autox with one of the Team T-Bone's builders, I believe his name is Rich. My intent is not to throw him under the bus here, but the specific discussion is really exploding and I can offer a few details. The team was at the budget cap and sold their autocross wheels/tires from last year to fund the drag slicks. The borrowed rolling stock was not included in the budget, and it does put them over budget. I was a little questioning about the situation when I watched them pass my autox score after attaching the borrowed tires. But Rich was so excited to see the improvement, that I decided to join him rather than complain.Wow.
This Pat is with that Pat.
I'll wow it too.
In reply to patgizz:
I completely believe that his intent was not to defraud or cheat in any way. I believe that he was genuinely not thinking of the budget impact and just excited to see his car do well.
Pat wrote:Lof8 wrote: I corner worked the autox with one of the Team T-Bone's builders, I believe his name is Rich. My intent is not to throw him under the bus here, but the specific discussion is really exploding and I can offer a few details. The team was at the budget cap and sold their autocross wheels/tires from last year to fund the drag slicks. The borrowed rolling stock was not included in the budget, and it does put them over budget. I was a little questioning about the situation when I watched them pass my autox score after attaching the borrowed tires. But Rich was so excited to see the improvement, that I decided to join him rather than complain.Wow.
I can confirm as I had a similar conversation.
Thanks Andy (Lof8) for posting the comment. I think I would have done the same as you did, but neither of us came trying to win one of the overall trophies. It looks like Circuit Motorsports was bumped into 4th by a car that was over budget, and should have been running in exposition.
AngryCorvair wrote: Do we know if they included the borrowed rolling stock in their budget? Do we know that they did not? Does including it put them over budget?
I was going to stay out of this one as I was just a spectator at the Challenge, but I messaged Rich Monday or Tuesday and asked about the borrowed tires out of curiosity. He responded and said they had $78 worth of budget left and the tires were old street tires, not stickies, like Hoosiers. He felt he could have bought a pair off Craigslist ,or at a junkyard for less than the $78. He did not mention the wheels. My opinion is that he was caught up in the excitement of the event and wasn't gaming the system.
I guess since I'm at the center of this controversy I need to be transparent until everything I know about the situation with the lone tires. During the autocross a gentleman I did not know approach me and asked if I would like to work out a time sharing deal. He offered to let me use his drag slicks if I would let him borrow two of my autocross tires. In an effort to cooperate with fellow competitors I agreed. My car was not competitive nor did I expect it to be. It was my first event and I just wanted the experience. The gentleman in question was not trying to be surreptitious or Shady. He appeared to be completely aboveboard. My friend John Thomas had driven his car and said it was unmanageable with the drag tires on the rear. My car was beginning to overheat from repeated autocross run so while I parked it to cool down I agreed to let him borrow my rear tires to use on the front of his car. I offered to let him use the full set but he apparently had decent autocross tires that he moved from the front to the rear of his car. When it was time tool in the tires to him I had him paged over the PA system.
The drag slicks would not even fit under my wheel wells butt I readily agreed to allow him to use my tires for a few autocross runs. He used only the front 2 tires and rims. He change them in plain view of everybody not trying to hide anything. My car was sitting in his hit on jack stands in plain view with no rear tires.
Two different pro drivers made repeated runs trying to lower their times against each other. By the time they were through the autocross was being shut down and we didn't have time to remount the tire on our car for additional runs. After the autocross concluded they returned the tires to my car and we prepared for the drag races. Being a rookie I never even thought about budgetary considerations nor did the team that borrowed the tires ask me their value. They were excited about their time improvements and it never did I get the impression they were trying to hide anything.
I apologize for any controversy I may be a part of in this. All I was trying to do was help my fellow competitors. I now I realize that my innocent actions may have given an unfair advantage in the competition.
The two wheels in question were 17 inch C5 front wheels which I purchased a set of 4 for $125. Thus the wheels would be valued at 62.50. The tires were new Nitto nto5 200 treadwear cam legal tires which I paid approximately $125 each from Discount Tire Direct after their rebate. Again I apologize for anything I may have done wrong. It was certainly not my intent to s Kew results over another competitor
My math adds up to $312.5 budget hit but I failed out of Georgia Tech as I pointed out to that team.
I hate that this happened. When I agreed to lend the tires I did not even know which car they were going on. If I should be lucky enough to compete again I want everyone to know that I will lend you anything I have big tires or tools or whatever. Weather I know you are not. I'm at a stage in my life where a piece of wood or tin cup just ain't that important to me.
My major regret is that my inadvertent action may have caused entrants that I was rooting for based on their builds and total commitment to the rules of the event to lose spots in the final results. And that would be Patgizz, pimpim3 and aussiesteve for what it's worth
In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:
It's not your fault at all. As others pointed out loaning tires is well within the spirit of the event. The difference is other teams that thought about borrowing tires had budget room. If I had been that close to budget I would have asked the pro to do a safe run to get a time and then prepared for drags. My biggest issue is staff that seemed to dismiss questions about the budget after borrowing the tires. An alloy wheel is $25 each and I don't know of any decent tire that could be bought for $14 each used. When that was questioned someone should have said let's check instead of guessing.
In reply to Stampie:
I wish I could buy new nto5 s for $14 each
In reply to Ovid_and_Flem:
I know a guy ... fell off a truck in Jersey ...
In reply to Stampie:
Diet coke through my nose all over my keyboard
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