Crappy replacement radiators

Just wondering if this problem applies to many other makes/models out there...

My 98 Saturn needs a radiator. Common problem once they get about 15 years old. Problem is, any radiator you buy from Advance Auto/NAPA/Autozone seems to be a total pile of E36 M3. My last car spit it's OE rad around 140k and killed 2 replacements in the next 20k miles. They just blow apart where the endtanks seal. This isn't just me... hundreds of horror stories from other owners that after the first one goes, they can't keep a working radiator in the car unless they get a low mileage OE unit from a junkyard.

Did some research today and found that Delphi brand is apparently U.S. made using the OE molds or something and seem to work "better"... but I am still skeptical.

Do other cars have this problem? Is it just that every crappy replacement is made using a duplicate of some crappy tool? Or maybe the plastic isn't up to the OE standards? Anyone developed a clever fix? I've heard of some people crimping them harder with vice grips, sealing them with epoxy, and reinforcing the plastic as preventative measures - but no data on whether or not any of that actually works.

It's not just Saturn radiators. It's also one of the main reasons the British Motor Trade Association came to exist. I know that doesn't help you, but the British repair shops were also having a problem with crappy replacement parts. Part of that is market-driven: People want the least expensive replacement part possible. Why pay $40 for a widget if someone else can produce an inferior version for $39? Or $38? Or, even better, 29?

With the BMTA (I'm their chairman of the board) we're opening the lines of communication between all involved. If a shop comes across an inferior product, at least there's less obstacles to identifying the problem and finding a solution.

In some cases, the importers and distributors weren't even aware of the problem. Their supplier made a change, didn't tell anyone, and kept delivering product. The end user noticed a problem, but the importer/distributor simply wasn't aware that something had changed to one of the thousands of products that they stock. The BMTA also provides a network so the shops can discuss the parts--like, who supplies the best MGB master cylinder, for example.

Again, I know this doesn't help you, but at least one part of the market is doing something about it. Here, free plug for our site: http://www.britcar.org

Crappy aftermarket radiators are definitely common but you can usually find a few good ones from reputable brands. See if you can find an all-metal model.

Worst case scenario, see if you can fit an aftermarket radiator in a common size & layout. Here's an all-aluminum one but I don't know if it's worth another $300+ dollars to you:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bci-65008/overview/year/1998/make/saturn/model/sc2

David,

Good to know you guys are doing that.

I think many cars with aftermarket don't run into the problem as much, as the enthusiasts will quickly move to purchasing some of the higher quality solutions. The Saturn falls under "appliance", so most of those solutions don't exist, save the BE-Cool posted above - which requires some additional modifications to make work.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

I'm tempted to try the Delphi just to see if the rumors of it being decent are true. If I had confirmation that it too was a piece of crap, I'd consider dropping the $450+ on a Be-Cool just because exchanging $100 lifetime warranty radiators once a year gets really old. (AMR has also made a run of aluminum radiators for the car, but its a company that I dislike doing business with)

Regarding the similar size/layout radiators, this car is automatic, so the trans cooler is built in to the radiator. That could be fixed with an aftermarket cooler (not a bad idea on these anyway), but the mounts for the A/C condenser are on the front of the radiator and OE fan mounts on the back as well.

IIRC, all of the main radiator producing companies were bought by LKQ.

LKQ has been vacuuming up a significant percentage of the aftermarket auto parts business.

So. I guess the takeaway is, if you're getting a crappy radiator from Spectra Power, it's probably going to be the same crappy radiator from a different supplier since they're not different suppliers anymore. Delphi is too big to be absorbed by LKQ so you may want to try that route. (They probably made the originals, after all)

I ran into this head-on when I needed a radiator for the RX-7 a few years back. I'd been going through Modine/SPI radiators at a horrible rate, the steel sides would just fall off of the brass tanks and resoldering never worked for very long either. Then LKQ made like Hoover and parts supply was zero for a while, although I did find one for $200. Sadly, the $160 Chinese all-aluminum unit I did buy out of necessity turns out to be a far superior product...

I've lost two replacements but not from blown seals. Both cracked the upper tanks, even though I sourced them from different places. I bought one off the local radiator repair shop down the street and that one cracked at 6,000 feet of altitude.

I'm certain that cheap heater cores are just mini-fail-radiators. I abused VatoZone's lifetime warranty on those. 7 cores in 5 years? I got so good at it, I could swap one out in less than an hour.

For the nylon ended rads you can get just new plastic ends. When one blows order another from the dealer. At least it's that way with some Nissans. You can pry up all the clasps with a screwdriver or something and bend them all back around the replacement.

Personally I don't think I will buy another plastic ended radiator as a replacement as long as there are cheap ($100-150 or so) all aluminum ones all over ebay. The all aluminum ones don't really have anything to go wrong as long as they don't initially leak (and are the right size or larger)

I've had good luck wit the chapo rock auto brands.

I've had good experience from this outfit.

http://www.coolestradiator.com/

I'm not a knee-jerk plastic hater. Lots of pounds and dollars have been saved with no drawback by substitution plastic in place of metal.

But, there is a special place in hell for the guy that decided radiators should have plastic tanks.

I feel your pain. The only replacement radiator for mx6 GTs is made by Spectra.

I've had 4 in my car in the last 32k miles. At least I learned to keep my reciept from Autozone after the second one because apparently when they say they put you in their system for warranty they lie.

ShadowSix wrote: I'm not a knee-jerk plastic hater. Lots of pounds and dollars have been saved with no drawback by substitution plastic in place of metal. But, there is a special place in hell for the guy that decided radiators should have plastic tanks.

I'm totally fine with plastic tanks, but the thing is, you HAVE to make sure that there are no stresses on the mount pins. I've had many a car where the hood support was tweaked one way or one side of the lower mount was shoved back two inches from a parking curb incident. (VERY common on PT Cruisers!) This is usually why the old radiator failed in the first place.

This also includes making sure that the lower rubber grommets are in good shape. One torn/sagged grommet will put a nasty stress on the radiator just the same as if the support was mangled.

Usually you can beat the offending part back into shape with a big hammer but sometimes you have to make a new mounting location for the upper mount. For three years, there was an Escort GT on the roads up here with only one upper mount because one side couldn't be installed and the other side was relocated an inch and a half and held in with zip screws. It lasted until the rest of the car was done, anyway.

Now, if you want a Book grade "special level of Hell" then go for VW for their asinine radiator mounting scenario for the A4 chassis Jettas/Golfs. The radiator is firmly held in to the plastic assembly that IS the front of the car. When you crack it, you disassemble the nose and replace it, along with the radiator that you broke when you cracked it. Expect half of the bolts to break, the other half of the bolts to just spin the threaded inserts in the plastic, and the aftermarket ones have a really crappy fit...

Swank Force One wrote: At least I learned to keep my reciept from Autozone after the second one because apparently when they say they put you in their system for warranty they lie.

That happened to me. And I never went back. Like ever. Except for the lifetime warranties I had receipts for.

Other side of the coin: you can get custom-made, quality radiators built to your spec, but boy, can they be expensive. At the Ridgway, Colorado Railroad Museum we recently had two honeycomb-style antique radiators fabricated for two Galloping Goose railcars (a Pierce Arrow and a '26 Buick), modified from original design in that they are pressurized now (old cars of that era ran unpressurized systems) - they turned out beautiful - BUT - they had to be fabricated in England, took a few months each, and cost $3500 each. Probably not a good solution for a Saturn.

That's awesome. Expensive, sure, but is a Goose.

ShadowSix wrote: I'm not a knee-jerk plastic hater. Lots of pounds and dollars have been saved with no drawback by substitution plastic in place of metal. But, there is a special place in hell for the guy that decided radiators should have plastic tanks.

Big +1 for this. I think cars could do well with more plastic in place of metal...but not on radiator tanks.

In reply to Swank Force One:

Have you tried looking for a radiator just based on dimensions and where the side the in/outlets are? There are a lot of radiators out there you could find something very close if not the same size.

jere wrote: In reply to Swank Force One: Have you tried looking for a radiator just based on dimensions and where the side the in/outlets are? There are a lot of radiators out there you could find something very close if not the same size.

That's my next project. If i must be quite honest, these Spectras are really pushing the limit of what i'd call acceptable in terms of performance anyways.

Their model for the turbo cars is about the same size as the stock non-turbo core, so a half inch to 3/4" thinner than the OEM turbo radiator. (Which was all metal.)

They're just horrible junk. What do i expect for $70?

Appleseed wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: At least I learned to keep my reciept from Autozone after the second one because apparently when they say they put you in their system for warranty they lie.

That happened to me. And I never went back. Like ever. Except for the lifetime warranties I had receipts for.

The receipts are printed with disappearing ink Better make a photo copy.

I got a radiator from auto zone many years ago to replace the original Nissan rad in my PU truck. The original only went 7-8 years and started overheating badly. The cheapo replacement has been going over 15 years now. I've noticed the temp gauge reads a little higher at times, so I'm afraid I will have to replace this one eventually. What I'm hearing isn't encouraging.

Jim Pettengill wrote: Other side of the coin: you can get custom-made, quality radiators built to your spec, but boy, can they be expensive. At the Ridgway, Colorado Railroad Museum we recently had two honeycomb-style antique radiators fabricated for two Galloping Goose railcars (a Pierce Arrow and a '26 Buick), modified from original design in that they are pressurized now (old cars of that era ran unpressurized systems) - they turned out beautiful - BUT - they had to be fabricated in England, took a few months each, and cost $3500 each. Probably not a good solution for a Saturn.

This needs a pic or two.

Well, Delphi unit is on its way out. That was fast.

I always buy the aluminum generic ones and retrofit them in. The factory one for my last car was something stupid like 721$, plastic was 380$ a change.

110$ for a griffin and some bodging and the car almost ran to cold.

This is my DD and it needs to have provisions for a fan and ac condenser. The trans cooler I suppose I could wedge a universal in there.

Where would you get non-performace, metal radiators from for modern cars? Ive got a leak in my top tank on my 2000 accord.