Damn you Honda! (Brake rotor content)

I have an older sister who lives in an apt complex.  She called me a few days ago and said her brakes are loud.  Knowing that she is the automotive neglect type, I knew that if she was mentioning it, It was probably severe.  So, since she lives an hour away, I figured it was best to go to her rather than expect her to drive the hour on bad brakes.  I decided that Sunday morning would be the time to tackle this.  I spent a lot of time in my garage that morning running through a brake job in my head and making sure to bring everything I would need.

I get to her house and test drive.  Certainly some noisy front brakes.  At 91k miles on this 2007 Civic EX, it seems logical for pads and rotors.  The nearest Autozone didn't have everything but they informed me that the 3 mile away shop had it all.  Duralast Gold pads and cheap rotors.  $127 all total.  Sure, I could have sourced cheaper but I couldn't source quicker which was paramount.  

Back at her apt, I asked my sister if she specifically knew of any rule forbidding car work right there in the parking lot.  She did not and offered to ask someone.  I replied, no, we will just ask forgiveness (not permission.)   This part went fine.  No trouble and no inquiries on this Sunday morning.  It was about Noon by the time parts were sourced.  

All was going fine until I came to this... 

Having not owned a Honda in the past 20 years (but lots of everything else) who decided that rotors should also have phillips screws???

Being in a hurry to get done before too much attention.  I brought everything needed but did not bring an impact driver.  With what I did have on hand, I completely buggered up a phillips head with a phillips bit in an cordless Dewalt impact driver.  

The old pads were down to metal/metal.  With my buggering, I was not equipped with the tools on-hand to get the rotors off.  So, I slapped on the new pads to the old rotors.  Not great for the new pads and their longevity but it at least allowed me to get the car back to a drivable state, today.  

So, with all that said, I ask:

1. What will it take to get that buggered phillips bolt out of there?  Can I drill the bolt out?  Will I need some special drill bit?
2. What is the correct method of getting these phillips bolts out?  Impact screw driver?  Also, don't forget rusty climate!!!
3. Where can I get a replacement bolt?  

Drill, or center punch and hammer. 

You haven't worked ona Honda for a very long time, have you?

No, but I can do Prius front pads in my sleep.  They are generally the same as these Civic w/o the damn phillips.  Instead, the lug nut torque just keeps the rotor on the hub.  

1. Drill it out. Since you are replacing the rotor, you don't even need to be that careful.
2. Drill.  
3. This is 100% my opinion, but don't bother.  That screw holds the rotor onto the hub on the assembly line.  In about a week, galvanic corrosion will do its thing, and the rotor will have no interest separating from the hub.

I encountered the exact same thing with my 2007 Fit the first time I went to do brakes.  I was real nervous about drilling out the bolt, but I was in a pinch.  Since i was replacing the rotor, I used a 1/2 inch drill bit and it took all of 30 seconds.  I proceeded to drive another 120K miles with no bolts in rotors.  I think I changed the brakes on that car a total of 4 times before the auto box ate itself at 150K.

You can drill it out, or grind it out and butcher the rotor in the process, but you don't care because you're changing them anyway. Next time the impact driver is certainly the best way to go; most parts store rent them.

And it's not technically correct, but given it doesn't sound like she's ever going to take the wheel off again, I'd be tempted to just skip the bolt and let the lug nuts hold the new rotors in place. 
 

Those aren't exclusive to Honda's. Off the top of my head, I've encountered Mazda's and Hyundai's with them too. Honestly, I thought most cars have that setup.

I knew what this was going to be about from the title.  I have an impact driver like the one Tom posted a picture of for this exact purpose. One note is that you will need a larger Phillips bit (that comes with the impact driver). PBblaster (or equivalent) might also help if you have time and are replacing the rotor anyways.

I've never put those bolts back on the rotor, the lug nuts will hold them on just fine.

Snrub said:

Those aren't exclusive to Honda's. Off the top of my head, I've encountered Mazda's and Hyundai's with them too. Honestly, I thought most cars have that setup.

Mazda5, Ford F250 and Prius are the most recent vehicles I have done front brakes on.  None had phillips.  It could be possible that the bolts had previously been removed on all though.  Just not removed by me.  

Before opening the thread I knew what your problem was :)

You definitely need a hammer impact like this:

Also keep in mind its a JIS screw, not Phillips. Thats why the phillips bit was caming out.

#3 bit on the impact driver.

Take a stout nail set or chisel with a pointed tip.  Pound a divet (dimple) straight into the screw head as close to the edge of the screw as possible without going over. Then start progressively tilting the punch until you reach 45 degrees, at which point the screw either starts moving or you blow out your divet and start again with a virgin divet.  (Yes I intentionally worded that sentence.)

I've done dozens of Honda brake rotor jobs and never had this method fail, haven't had to drill one out since I learned/perfected it.

I never replace those screws. JPaturzo is correct, they're only there to keep the rotor from falling off before the caliper is installed on the moving assembly line.

You want to be really pissed, go change a rotor on a mid 90s Accord.

A hammer and a cheap screw driver usually do the trick. Spray some nut buster in there also. If worse comes to worse, use a chisel and hammer to break it loose. They don't necessarily have to be on there for reassembly. 

Another vote for impact screwdriver... Vessel makes high quality JIS impact drivers. 

https://www.amazon.com/Vessel-Megadora-Impacta-P2x100-Screwdriver/dp/B003BI8HHQ

1/4" drill bit, done.

Thank you all for talking me down from my frustration.  This was supposed to be:

• drive 60 miles
• do a quick and undisruptive brake change in parking lot
• drive 60 miles back home and not loose the whole day to this brake job.

Instead, the brake job is half done but still took as long as doing it right. And, now, I get to do the whole thing another day which will take just as long.  Except, next time I will have my sister drive to my place, where I will have everything I need.  

This time, I thought I had everything but I didn't bring either drill bits or impact/hammer driver.  The thought had crossed my mind to go get those items, but..   With the car on jack stands, I didn't want to leave the car unattended while I went to the nearest store.  I figure that "unattended-ness" is the reason apartment complexes typically hate people working on cars in the parking lot.  Further more, I didn't want to take the time putting the car back on the ground and back to "looking normal" just so that I could leave.  

In this round of reviewing her car, I also realized that the rear brakes are very worn too.  At the time, I figured I would tackle the immediate problem of the fronts and do the backs another day.  Since that "another day" will probably be happening soon, I'll probably do the rears at the same time.  

This is a 2007 Civic EX and being an EX gives it rear disk brakes.  This leads me to ask (in advance this time), what surprises will I encounter with these rear brakes?  

Pro tip: If you use a punch about the same diameter as the screw head, hit it as hard as you can at least 3 times with a big hammer, it will usually back it right out. Most times after you've already butchered the head with a screwdriver, the punch will often push the metal back enough that you can reuse the same screwdriver to back it out.

Impact driver is the proper tool

I didn't mention it in my first post, but good on you for helping your sister out!  
 

I haven't run into any abnormal issues with Honda rear brakes, but if I'm digging into a new model, I try to find a forum post or two (and YouTube videos) to see if there are any model-specific gotchas. I am often accused of over-prepping for car work (just ask my wife!), but it's what I have to do when I have limited windows to get the work done and the vehicle back in use.

You need to screw the rear caliper pistons in. Make sure you have the cube. 

In reply to John Welsh :

I don't know about Civic brakes , but I have run into brakes that required twisting the pistons back in instead of simply pushing them straight in. The first time I ran into that it took me a while to figure out.

I have the cube. I even brought the cube with me yesterday in case what my sister was reporting as front brake noise actually turned out to be rear brake noise. 

Since you've got the front brake serviceable I'd say the key to being successful on the rear and with the front rotors is TO MAKE HER COME TO YOU THIS TIME!

BMW's use these screws (with an allen head) to hold the rotors on as they use lug bolts instead of studs. I always hit them with anti seize and they get put in just past finger tight so I don't have to curse myself out a few years later.

Just so you aren't caught off guard in the future, Hyundai used them through at least 2010. I haven't had the wheels off newer ones than that know if it continues.