Daughter needs car. Toyota RAV4 Vs Subaru Forester?

Haven't heard of any issues with Subaru's CVTs other than people hating the sound of an engine holding a steady RPM.

Honda CVTs are basically bulletproof.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

Haven't heard of any issues with Subaru's CVTs other than people hating the sound of an engine holding a steady RPM.

 

Honda CVTs are basically bulletproof.

I remember they had to extend their warranty due to them failing right outside of the powertrain warranty period. Still a long time I guess (100k+ miles) but if I buy an appliance I expect it to last as long as my old beaters used to (200k+)

FWIW we just did this search. CRV, CX5, RAV4, and Forester, looking at the lower-mid (negotiated <$30k OTD incl. 10% Sales Tax) trims.  The CRV was great right up until we read up on the unresolved gas-in-the-oil problems they're having with the 1.5T. The CX5 was brilliant except the seats strangely caused us (especially me, who is not typically prone to such things) upper-mid back pain. RAV4 was poorly equipped and generally pretty mediocre feeling at this price point...And with a moonroof being a requirement, we would have had to tack at least a few thousand dollars more (noticeably exceeding the budget cap) on the RAV4 just to get one. Additionally, with car seats (including rear facing) in the rear, I seem to recall the RAV4 having the smallest rear seats of the bunch and affecting the occupant in front of them the most.

Interestingly, the CX5 transmission is the ONLY torque converter auto I've ever driven that acted the way I believe they should.  Keep the torque converter locked and flip a super-quick shift if you need a different rpm.  Unlocking the torque converter is no quicker to respond, and what's the point in having all these gears spaced so closely together if you're not going to use them. Even my non-enthusiast wife immediately noticed the difference and liked the feel of it. 

Initially, I didn't even want to look at the Subaru due to the CVT and my limited (but memorably unpleasant) experience with older ones. I only allowed the CRV as the automotive press actually raves about it's CVT being the best one yet. Honestly though, the Subaru wasn't appreciably different.  After being disappointed (and frustrated) by the fatal flaws in the CRV, CX5, and RAV4, my wife finally convinced me to check out the Subaru. Honestly, I was impressed by the CVT in it. It is programmed to give just enough of a 'geared' feel to not hate more than any other slushbox short of the CX5. Reliability wise, the newer ones also seem to be holding up just fine by most reports I've seen as well.

So in the end, the Subaru won us over. Compared to the RAV4 it had better sight lines, better equipped, better space utilization, brighter and more open feeling cabin, more comfortable, arguably better lookin, and no major mechanical complaints showing up. Since they're basically the official car of the PNW, I'll offer an anecdotal counterpoint to the GRM complaints. Half the people we know have at least one late-model Subaru's in their driveway, since it's basically the unofficial brand of the PNW, and none of them have had any significant issues with theirs...And so far we couldn't be happier with ours.

But one more anecdote aside, she really just needs to get out there and spend some time with each as close as she can to the way she intends to use it. When you do that, usually the choice becomes fairly obvious. And if it isn't, the search probably needs to be expanded.

Rav4 Prime really seems to check some boxes for a dependable, fuel efficient, versatile appliance. Still gets some Federal Tax credits too.

The new Escape PHEV might be an option as well. It's $5k cheaper to start before any tax credits, and supposedly gets a bit better fuel economy. The slightly smaller package might be advantageous for street parking too.

Rav4 All day long

Did this same thing with the wife last year and the Subarus were overpriced and underoptioned.  They also dont have the resale or reliablity of the Toyota.

Consider a 4 Runner, they are only 15% more money and a lot more than 15% more vehicle.  2020 RAV4 Base is around 30k, 2020 SR5 4x4 4 Runners are around $35k.  Put some ARB bumpers on the 4 Runner and street park with no worries.  

I would go with the Rav4. 

Reason #1) My brother who doesn't take care of cars and has no mechanical abilities whatsoever has a 2002 Rav4 that's still operating on a daily basis. I know it's not the same car; but, it's a testament to Toyota build quality and durability.

Reason #2) Both cars will hold their resale value well. The Toyota will be less maintenance intensive than the Forester. The Forester also has a terrible seating position IMO - after owning two I refuse to ever buy another until they get the ergonomics figured out. 

Reason #3) You won't have to deal with Subaru service. 

93gsxturbo said:

Rav4 All day long

Did this same thing with the wife last year and the Subarus were overpriced and underoptioned.  They also dont have the resale or reliablity of the Toyota.

Consider a 4 Runner, they are only 15% more money and a lot more than 15% more vehicle.  2020 RAV4 Base is around 30k, 2020 SR5 4x4 4 Runners are around $35k.  Put some ARB bumpers on the 4 Runner and street park with no worries.  

I have a 2020 4Runner and Her Mom has a GX460, she wants smaller.

If you get a Land Cruiser then the 4 Runner will seem smaller.  

You can thank me later.

93gsxturbo said:

If you get a Land Cruiser then the 4 Runner will seem smaller.  

 

You can thank me later.

Lol, she grew up being shuffled around in an LX470, that's one car I should have never sold. 

CX-5..

Not sure if it's been mentioned but the new RAV4 Prime  (which is the plug in version) is impossible to get. The dealers around have stopped taking orders.........you can't even configure them online anymore. You just get a message saying to contact your local dealer which of course don't have any.  On the forums people were saying some Toyota dealerships were asking $15K over sticker for an order.

Too many knocks on the Subaru for me. MPGs, reliability issues, I’m out.

It’s between the RAV and the CX-5, in my opinion.

She's heading here tomorrow and will drive them to see. The Mazda was a good suggestion, so that's in the mix. RAV4 prime won't work with street parking, I was going to suggest one of those next year when she has a garage, but here we are. 

Came in here to express my disdain for Subaru CVTs. Baby's momma has had 3 2014+ Subarus with the CVT (14 Forester 2.5i base model, 16 Forester XT Premium, 2019 Crosstrek Limited) - the consensus from both of us is the same. The CVT sucks no matter what flavor of Subie crossover its in. The FXT was the most solid of the 3 but even then it would lurch at low speeds, buck when in reverse, and not know what it was doing half of the time under WOT. 

I maybe being a little harsh but my experience with those and the dealerships when taking them in for complaints makes me want to smash guitars. With all of that being said, they never left us stranded anywhere but she's also not put over 50k on one yet. 

Roommate out here in Cali has a 15 XV Crosstrek. It's got 45k on it and when you put it in drive and press on the gas it takes like 10 seconds for the car to actually start moving even if you're mashing the gas pedal. 

We will be driving the Subaru, Toyota, and Mazda tomorrow. She's had a few friends with Subaru's tell her they hate the cvt, so she's not expecting to like it. She did throw in an interesting find though, the cx-5 had a diesel in 2019 on the top trim level. She really liked the vw diesel so that's an interesting option. There's not many out there, but there are 2 about 70 miles away. 
 

One is a 2019 certified with 5k miles for $31,500. The original sticker was $44k. It's an oddball car, but could be fun to own. I'd rather have that than a 2020 with less options for the same price

I didn't read all the post, but did anyone mention the Kia Seltos?

Seems to be similar in size with the 10/100k power train warranty 

We got a 19 Rav4 for my wife last September. She went from a 17 4Runner to this and she doesn't miss the 4Runner at all. I miss the 4Runner as I'm a lot bigger than her and the Rav4 lacks headroom. Also I like the BOF of the 4Runner, but happy wife happy life. We have the XLE premium with heated seats and sunroof. She's spoiled. 

Volvo XC40?

Slippery (Forum Supporter) said:

Volvo XC40?

Ruled out the Volvo, Lexus, Acura, and Audi, assuming even though you can get them for good prices, the might look too expensive on the street and be a target for vandalism. 

I’d be verrrrrrry interested in the CX-5 diesel. I knew they made one, but I’ve heard next to nothing about them. But I want to use biodiesel so I’m biased.

On the gasser CX-5, there are some stories about the cylinder deactivation causing issues, so you may want to avoid that or trust they fixed it. 

In reply to CyberEric :

When researching them, the main take away seems to be the gas mileage of the diesel isn't good enough to override the $4500 up charge and they're slower than the turbo gas ones. Looking at them used, the diesel and the gas are the same price so the $4500 is wiped out. The one thing she noticed is the diesel doesn't have the start/stop at every red light stuff which drove her nuts in the rental Jeep. 
 

I think part of the appeal for her is having a car most people don't know about. I get that. 

dxman92 said:

CX-5..

Came here to write this.

Nicer to drive, comparable MPG's, better towing capacity, cheaper to buy, better warranty, etc...

She should really be looking at the CX-5 like others have said. Nicer interior appointments than the RAV4, which in its latest iteration looks good but feels a little "thin" everywhere IMO.

CX-5 got the new 2.5L turbo four and it's a torquey little thing that handles far better than it should (turbo engine or otherwise). No point in buying diesel when the turbo makes similar power/torque figures and uses cheaper fuel. Here's my review of a CX-5 Signature.

Also saw the recommendation of a Kia Seltos. I was tossed the keys to one a few months back and really enjoyed it. It felt very light on its feet, comes in fun colors, and is pretty well-equipped for the price. Seltos review here.

Just to put an ending to this. She hated the way the Subaru felt. The CX-5 is a lot of car for the money and she really liked it. The RAV4 hybrid was the winner. She just said it felt better to her. I assume it's because swmbo has had a few Lexus (Lexi?) over the years. She drove them, then thought about it for a day, Went to buy it Today and even drove the Toyota to the Mazda dealer to drive them back to back. Everyone involved was great, no pressure, both salespeople said they're both good choices, just get what feels the best to you. 
 

There's nothing wrong with the Mazda, and I wouldn't say either one is better than the other, it's just what she chose for herself. I appreciate all of the advice here.