DD thoughts: best combination of HP and MPG?

The 2022 Civic Si has really caught my eye. With an (apparently underrated) 200hp and 37mpg highway, this sedan has serious DD potential written all over it. What other ICE vehicles have a great combination of hp and epa estimated MPG? 

I'd say just about all of the "sporty cars" (new GR86, Civic Si, new WRX, etc) are great these days as far as MPG/power goes. Personally, I don't need a lot of horsepower to have fun cause it's pretty easy to break the law in most cars these days.

Anything with a big V8 and appropriate gearing. C8 Corvette 495hp and 27mpg highway, and that's down a couple from the c7. Of course it's a different story whether you can restrain yourself enough to actually accomplish those numbers in the real world. My cayman (325hp) is rated 30mpg highway but I've never managed to make a trip average higher than 25mpg because I'm just not that responsible.

Most anything with a diesel has that capability.  Buy TDI, plug in tune and add injectors, 300hp and more torque than superman at 50mpg.

C5-C7 'Vette will get you high 20s on the hwy.  Our '17 Mustang GT returned 33mpg on one trip where it stayed under 70mph. 

Anything V8 will drop rapidly with in-town driving.

I wish my DD was better about this. 212whp and 25mpg combined. I'd be happy if it was either faster or more efficient. 

The Ducati Panigale v4 gets about 27-30 mpg, 200hp, and performance no car can touch.

Camry Hybrid is 208hp and rated at 53mpg highway

Ecoboost Mustang is rated at 32mpg highway and 330hp

Jetta GLI is 228hp and rated at 37mpg

Camry is 301hp/33hwy

My DD GTI is 220hp (but more importantly 260tq @1500) and over 35k miles I've averaged about 31mpg in mixed driving (stop-and-go beltway traffic, stop-and-go city traffic, idling in the parking lot trading stocks at lunch, and 80mph on the highway in equal increments).

On long road trips going about 70 it generally gets in the 35-36 range, but I'm sure I could do better if I didn't like to hear turbo noises.... I recall one time on a trip to my parents' where i had time to kill I actively tried to conserve gas (went 63 instead of 70+, stayed off the boost, and didn't hit a single stoplight), and it showed 40 for a single tank. On the way back I drove normally and got 36 ;)

 --

Just for the sake of comparison, my 2009 WRX, driven the same way for a decade, averaged about 24mpg across the board and could occasionally touch 30 on long highway hauls. But it also took Premium. And it also was about 80hp more powerful. 

My 20 year old S40 was rated at something silly like 28 or 32mpg highway but I could easily get 41-42mpg running on premium fuel.  It did not have 220hp, though.  It did have more power than could be used day-to-day, so in a Rolls Royceian sense it was "sufficient".

(More power than could be used meaning, able to blow the tires away at 65mph if it was raining)

People had reported using a manual boost controller to turn it up to 15psi with no problems, I was running into detonation at 10psi even on 93 octane, so I kept it turned to about 7-9psi or so.  That was too much power for two wheel drive anyway.

In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :

What year is your GTI and what transmission? Also does it take regular gas or have to put in premium? 
Those numbers look pretty good for a DD. 

I didn't realize the GTI and GLI could manage that kind of MPGs. good to know.

In reply to ProDarwin :

That Camry hybrid number is insane. My Prius C only averaged 43mpg on a very long road trip last year. +100hp and +10mpg highway is awful appealing. 

In reply to Curtis73 :

What's the best year TDI? Several years ago I was looking into the early 2000's TDI Golf, I remember stick shift with as few electronics as possible being the hot ticket

edit: Not that anyone is bench racing the Camry and the Prius, but I went down a bit of a rabbit hole. Big jump in average fuel economy in the 2018+ Camry hybrid. The Camry is also 3 seconds faster 0-60, while being within spitting distance of my Prius (my lifetime average is bang-on 45mpg). Likely also has a much larger backseat and a useable trunk. 

double edit: This is what middle age looks like.

I would say my FRS is actually fairly unimpressive in this metric, especially compared to the Si and GTI figures noted above.
 

200hp and my lifetime average is somewhere around 28mpg, with the vast majority of my mileage being two lane back roads. On the highway, I have seen as high as 35-36 for a stretch, but that's only if I'm holding it to about 60-65 max on a perfectly flat road. 80mph cruise is more like 32-33mpg, and that's all on premium by the way.

calteg said:

In reply to Curtis73 :

What's the best year TDI? Several years ago I was looking into the early 2000's TDI Golf, I remember stick shift with as few electronics as possible being the hot ticket

Unfortunately, the dieselgate ones which are getting long in the tooth these days.  I really don't like the rest of the car that goes around them, but I have almost done about 4 TDI swaps into something else.  As far as which specific ones (good blocks, or heads) I'm not up on them enough to know.

There was about a decade there, 98-08 or so that had so much aftermarket support.  Parleys in the UK has a DD Golf TDI making over 450hp between 3000-5800 rpm.  The only thing keeping the transmission from exploding is traction.  New EPA rules for diesels rolled out in 2008 which tends to make them really complicated with DPFs and DEF injection.

The thing about diesel is that they are so dirt simple.  In a gas engine, you're matching intake velocity, port flow, cam timing, ignition curves, exhaust tuning, the works.  Diesels you add fuel which adds boost until you reach the limits of your turbo.  Then you add a bigger turbo.  Keep going until you break a rod.  You also typically have so much more torque, and that torque is available over a much broader RPM range.  Dad's DD is an 04 Duramax, and for about $3000 in mods he's putting 938 ft-lb to the wheels and getting 24 mpg in an 8000 lb 1-ton truck.  He also has over 900 torques everywhere from 2000-redline

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Lots of torque but horrid throttle response, though.

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

Lots of torque but horrid throttle response, though.

Not always (even though diesels don't have throttles for controlling RPM/load).

Try driving dad's Dmax.  Wicked fast throttle response.  Not F1, but certainly quicker than many typical gas engines.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Try driving dad's Dmax.  Wicked fast throttle response.  Not F1, but certainly quicker than many typical gas engines.

Huh?  I mean, I like the Duramax (owned an LB7 and an LBZ) but throttle response isn't the strong point.  The 8.1L is a lot more responsive to throttle inputs, even if the absolute torque figures favor the diesel once the turbo spools up.

My 17 Honda Fit seems to do okay with fun to drive at legal speeds (130 hp/35-42 mpg).

Not sure the Fit meets the criteria. I owned both a first and second gen, fun to toss around, but plenty of cars get 35mpg nowadays

I dunno I get 20mpg with 460hp at a steady 80mph with 3.73's...

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Try driving dad's Dmax.  Wicked fast throttle response.  Not F1, but certainly quicker than many typical gas engines.

Huh?  I mean, I like the Duramax (owned an LB7 and an LBZ) but throttle response isn't the strong point.  The 8.1L is a lot more responsive to throttle inputs, even if the absolute torque figures favor the diesel once the turbo spools up.

 

If you read up a few posts, Dad's Dmax is heavily modified.  In stock form it's not the quickest response, but not terrible.

And throttle response isn't really the most important part of a DD.  Either way, just not sure why everyone hates on diesels. The OP is asking about power and mpg, so I suggest a diesel, but it's a bad choice because.... throttle response?

EVs shame all of these suggestions don't they?

Model 3 Performance AWD has 480hp and is rated at 113 mpge

Mach E AWD has 346hp and  90mpge

Bolt has 200hp and 120mpge

Ionic 5 AWD has 320hp and 98mpge

Polestar 2 Dual Motor has 408hp and 89mpge

These all have far lower maintenance and daily time requirements than most ICEs.

I'm averaging around 28mpg mixed with the Forte GT Turbo right now. Worst tank ever was about 25mpg with the best being 35mpg. Most tanks, I get between 28-30mpg, which isn't bad to me. Not as good as some other stuff in the segment, but better than the N/A Mazda 3 that it replaced and still not bad overall. I find that it gets better mpg on 93 than 87, but the flexibility to run 87 comes in handy when gas gets pricey. 

Realistically I think it would be hard to beat the new Civic Si/Sport. People get upwards of 40MPG out of them in the real world. IIRC C&D was stunned to get 42MPG out of theirs during their highway loop testing.

My MK7 GTI did pretty well (about 33 avg) but were I to shop for a similar car today I'd be looking at the Hondas (or waiting for the new Integra which I am actually sort of doing).

Corolla GR is around the corner too but that's a wild card.