Dealers are still slime-holes.

Now I remember why I got out of the family business. It's too damn hard to be an honest car salesman because the vast majority of them are slimeholes still. Audra, John, and I went to a dealer yesterday to look at a blue M-Edition Miata w/hardtop (it's on CL cough-cough).

Showed up and the car looked nice enough. Some scratches on the front bumper on the bottom, center caps had lost their paint, but the telling thing was the passenger window was down an inch and it was raining/drizzling.

I start inspecting the car, and there's an aftermarket front swaybar, Magnecor wires, and the oil is fresh. Looks like somebody cared about the car once. 50% tread Toyo Proxes 4's on actually facing the right direction (you'd be surprised how many times that's wrong...).

Then I realized the left rear 1/4 was a different color than the car. Found the overspray line in the doorjamb. Asked the sales guy about it. He assures us the car's never been hit. I ask him to Carfax the thing. He also mentions right away that they lost the key that morning...

Comes back with the Carfax and it actually shows the accident 4 years ago in North Carolina on the left rear 1/4! Damn I'm good. So we tell him to get a key and we'll be back, and let them know we we're willing to pay $5K cash for the car out the door since it was damaged, dependent on a test drive. Sales guy assures it runs like a top and we won't be disappointed.

We roll back in a few hours later and they have a key. Sales guy says it was $150 but it happens 3-4 times a month normally. Bullhockey. No business will willingly blow $600/month on "lost keys". So John starts the car (he is the one buying after all)...

And immediately there's a valve tick. A loud one. Sales puke says they "all do that". Audra says "no, they don't". I'm proud. I notice the CEL is on and point it out to John loudly. Sales dude disappears. Then a strong smell of burning oil starts wafting out. Pop the hood and the engine is SMOKING!!! Oil is puking out of the head gasket area onto the exhaust. Awesome.

Sales dude then proceeds to plug in an OBDII scanner (it is a 96) and starts clearing the CEL right in front of us! Audra, very loudly, states that the "car is SMOKING" as she nonchalantly reads a book. Other customers glance over and see the column of smoke rising up.

We start walking back to the P71. Sales dude asks where we're going. "Sorry dude, but that car's screwed. It's smoking, leaking oil, the valves are ticking, and the CEL is on. It's not even worth half of what you want with a blown motor". We pack in and head out laughing.

Sigh

Just FYI - the best way to get a Miata to start making a lot of HLA noise is to fire it up and run it for a short period over and over. You know, like shuffling a car around in a parking lot over the course of a week. So it wouldn't surprise me if most used Miatas on dealer lots did have a fair bit of lifter noise on startup.

Also, an OBD-II car can throw a CEL just from a loose gas cap - since he's got a reader, you could have found out what the code was. It could have been bad, it could have been nothing.

Head gasket leaking on to the exhaust, not good. And those "Mica" paints used on the M editions are a pain in the butt to match on crash repair, nice catch

Just so's ya know.

I worked at a dealer for almost three years. We had an average inventory of 20 cars at any given time. We didn't lose a single key that entire time.

I don't buy it.

I had a dealer lose the key to the car I brought in for service. I was displeased and made them install new locks in the doors.

I have worked at a bunch of dealerships, lost keys have always been a problem unfortunately. Usually someone takes the car for a test drive with a customer, they stick the key in their pocket and forget about it. they get home that night, oh noes! can't tell the sales manager they did something dumb so the key is 'lost'.

In service departments, the best ones will always remove your car key and hand you back the rest. Why? Lose a wad of keys sometime and then have to pay a locksmith to follow the customer around for a day or two and rekey the locks for everything they own. The one incident I am aware of (wasn't me!) cost the dealership around $1500.00.

I had the repair shop that had my Acura for an engine rebuild tell me they lost the 2 different keys I gave them...the 1 ignition/door lock key, and the "back-up" in the coin holder.

I NEVER give anyone all my keys when they have my car, just the ignition key.

BTW, I often wonder whether dealerships lose keys to cars in an attempt to get customers to pay for "spares".

Keith wrote: Just FYI - the best way to get a Miata to start making a lot of HLA noise is to fire it up and run it for a short period over and over. You know, like shuffling a car around in a parking lot over the course of a week. So it wouldn't surprise me if most used Miatas on dealer lots did have a fair bit of lifter noise on startup. Also, an OBD-II car can throw a CEL just from a loose gas cap - since he's got a reader, you could have found out what the code was. It could have been bad, it could have been nothing. Head gasket leaking on to the exhaust, not good. And those "Mica" paints used on the M editions are a pain in the butt to match on crash repair, nice catch

HLA noise... I don't worry too much about on a Miata, if it goes away after a bit of gentle driving.

OBD-II code... whenever I hear someone say, "My 'Check Engine' light is on," I tell them to tighten the gas cap. But if a salesman clears it and won't let me see what the code was. He can kiss my ass as it walks away.

Big oil leak on top of it all... he won't be able to kiss my ass because he'll never catch up to it.

'Lost key' is a sales tactic when you have someone on the hook for a car. Damn car salesmen (BTDT.) Whenever a car is an easy sell, the keys tend to get lost more frequently. Sales puke pockets it until his 'buyer' shows back up.

I have had a number of Miata keys made for less than $10 each, cut by a dealer using nothing but the VIN. I have made a practice of this since I tend to not get the original keys when buying used. Or, the original key is worn. 1. Get a single key made from the VIN. 2. Go to your local locksmith and have duplicates made. 3. Put the VIN cut key away where it is safe, and you'll be good. 4. Profit?

Dealers and car salesmen have a special place in hell set aside for them

Not a salesman story, but I had a particularly irritating day with a dealer Saturday. My mom brought her Mazda 5 in for service (and to have a rear suspension noise looked at, it's still under warranty). She asked for the dealer to perform the 30,000 mile service. Her mistake was assuming that the dealer would perform the services recommended in the manual and charge accordingly. She was infuriated when she got a bill for over $400 for the service. Here's what the 30k service (schedule 2 for harsher climates) in the owner's manual includes:

-Change Engine Oil & Filter -Inspect: Drive Belt Tension Coolant level Lights Brake lines Brake Fluid Level Disc Brakes Tire Pressure/Wear Steering Operation PS Fluid Level F&R Ball Joints & Wheel Bearings CV Boots Washer Fluid Level -Lubricate Locks and Hinges -Tighten bolts and nuts on chassis and body (this one I'm not quite sure what it entails, but I am fairly certain no bolts were actually tightened on the car during this service)

So she was expecting maybe a $100+ bill at the most, given that the 30k service basically amounts to an Oil change and a list of "inspection" items that were mostly already included in the state inspection she was also paying for at this time.

When my dad and I asked how this partucular service could have possibly cost $400, they stated that "their" standard 30k service included this list on a paper he handed to me:

According to this sheet, they overrode the factory maintenance schedules in the following ways: Air filter every 15k (factory severe duty schedule is 35k) Fuel filter every 30k (factory schedule does not specify) Wiper blades every 15k (factory schedule does not specify) Cabin air filter every 15k (factory schedule is 25k/2yr) Balance wheels every 15k (factory schedule does not specify)

Added "services" on the list include: Load test battery (free at Autozone, more a ploy to sell batteries than a service) Reset Maintenance Indicator light (I should hope this is included with any maintenance) Complimentary (HAHAHA) wash and vacuum (the car was dirty inside and out before and after we picked it up :) Rental Car included (mom was NEVER told that she could get a free rental with service, instead she waited for a saturday appointment open to avoid missing work)

Even the price listed on that sheet was a lie, there was an addtional $25 fee on the bill titled "Customer Pay Shop Charge For Repair Order", so the real price was $390 (plus the state inspection fee).

The 3 wiper blades they replaced were installed by me 2 WEEKS AGO! I made sure they at least retrieved them out of the trash and gave them back to me, since they were expensive frameless ones rather than the junk blades that they installed. BTW, this is the SECOND time this dealer has replaced and thrown away wiper blades I had just installed, according to my mom. They also rotated and balanced a set of tires that were installed approximately 1000 miles ago, which was absolutely obvious to anyone with eyes (they still had the little rubber feelers on the edges of the tread). There was no fuel filter listed on the reciept, so I have to assume it was not even replaced as indicated on their list.

The list of actual, value-adding work that was performed was an oil/filter change, air filter change, cabin air filter change, and a state inspection. I could have changed the oil and filters for about $40, and brought it in for the sticker myself. Even paying honest labor prices and dealer parts prices I cannot see how anyone with a conscience could charge more than $150 or so for this work. If they only did what was actually listed in the manual it shouldn't even be that much.

My mom has said she is never going to set foot in that place again, and right now my dad is looking up Foresters to buy for her. Don't the manufacturers have any idea what this sort of dealer behavior does to their brand? They will probably never consider a Mazda again, and I almost wish I hadn't recommended the 5 when I learned about the Motorsports S-Plan deal.

you need to send a copy of this post to the regional / national headquarters of Mazda... might come to nothing but then again...???

I went to the toyota dealer for a 20k service on the rav. They had two services, the standard lowly dowdy book service or the "dealer service" which was platinum awesome with shining love children on top.

One was $50 and one was $200. hmm...

ignorant wrote: I went to the toyota dealer for a 20k service on the rav. They had two services, the standard lowly dowdy book service or the "dealer service" which was platinum awesome with shining love children on top. One was $50 and one was $200. hmm...

At least they gave you a choice and told you the price up front. Not that it still isn't slimy.

mazda basically doesn't care about their dealers trying to hose down their loyal customers. there was a lot of this type of stuff going on with a few stock mazdaspeed3's lunching the motor in a stock car with less than 10k on them, then the dealers claiming the owners abused them.

MazdaUSA basically said that the dealers are independently owned and operated and they aren't going to tell them how to run things.

on the rear end noise on the mazda5, the rear swaybar endlinks have a tendency to come loose and clunk up and down as the suspension moves. usually this requires a new endlink because the moving about will booger the threads and it won't hold torque. sometimes it helps to direct the service advisor to this area as otherwise you run the risk of them wasting your time.

Swaybar endlinks were ordered as per the printout my parents recieved, but I think they have already been replaced before. If what you say about Mazda USA is true I am guessing that my dad won't be interested owning a Mazda much longer (or again). Too bad, I really like the car itself.

Karl La Follette wrote: Dealers and car salesmen have a special place in hell set aside for them

Next to child molesters and people who talk in the theatre.

To Josh:

The tires still had the little rubber feelers on them at 1,000 miles? Sorry, mine have about 5,000 miles on them and still have the little rubber rubber "feelers" on them....so maybe not so obvious. I am surprised a dealership actually changed wiper blades. I've never had anyone do that for me, not that I've ever asked them to. And a fuel filter was replaced that you admitted has no "wear-out" mileage.

I'm not sure I'd trust any dealership that doesn't tell you/show you how much more detailed their services are, than what the factory recommends. After all, they could have rebuilt the engine and charged accordingly.

Hope you paid with a credit card so you can dispute the charges/have proof for Mazda?

It's not that I expected them to realize it got tires about a month ago, but they clearly were low mileage and non-original, and a blanket policy of re-balancing (and charging) for every set of wheels that comes in the door is ridiculous.

Unfortunately, in these economic times when dealers have tech's sitting on the bench a huge percentage of time, the service manager's/department's are getting slimier and slimier to bring in some revenue.

Well I have to say if you don't ask what it is going to cost, you bear much of the blame. Most dealers I've seen have the cost of each inspection up on a board.

spitfirebill wrote: Well I have to say if you don't ask what it is going to cost, you bear much of the blame.

So which dealer do you work for ;)?

Mom says they gave her a paper to sign before she dropped the car off, but she thought she was authorizing them to check for the warranty issues. She never saw the list I posted until I went back in and asked why they threw away my brand new wiper blades and they gave me that sheet. She (quite reasonably, IMO) thought that when she took the car to the dealer and asked for the 30k service, they were going to do what it said in her owner's manual. Unfortunately my dad was the one that actually went in and paid the bill, and signed before he realized how much, or that she didn't actually ask for all of that work.

integraguy wrote: BTW, I often wonder whether dealerships lose keys to cars in an attempt to get customers to pay for "spares".

No, we don't. Jusst too many people involvd and too many cars. Really easy to lose them. I'd say we lose 3-5 keys a month here.

Josh wrote: There was no fuel filter listed on the reciept, so I have to assume it was not even replaced as indicated on their list.

I've had this same bad experience at a Jaguar dealer. I paid several hundred dollars for the 60K mile service. I thought that it was worth it since an accessory belt and fuel filter were part of the scheduled maintenance. The service advisor told me the car had to be there all day because they were going to do those things. I pick up my car the next day and NONE of the scheduled services I had felt made the quoted price eorth it were done.
I got: Oil and filter pollen filter air filter wiper blades tire rotation

and a "recomendation" to change the orther items I thought and was told I was paying for...

I chose to let the matter drop rather than get all worked up and foaming at the mouth over it. Those berkeleyers aren't getting any more business from me though...

Josh wrote:

spitfirebill wrote: Well I have to say if you don't ask what it is going to cost, you bear much of the blame.

So which dealer do you work for ;)?

Trust me, none. And none will ever do my scheduled maintenance either. Repairs are done by an independent mechanic, a good one of which I have been fortunate to find. I will probably let him do my wife's car scheduled maintenance. Pretty much everthing else I own has 100k+ miles on it or is British.