Death of the 3 door hatch?

mad_machine wrote:

Alan Cesar wrote: <This was because I already owned a 3-door Ford Escort, and using the back seat sucked. Pull a lever to flip the seat forward, pull the other lever to slide the seat forward, then get in the back. Then the front seat passenger has to readjust the seat before she can even get back in. Super lame.

I have not seen that system in use in a -long- time. Even my 96 318ti, the lever to slip the seat forward to get to the backseat would slid the seat forwards, tilt the back up, and raise the seat slightly.. all you needed to do to put it back in place was push the seat back towards the rear of the car. Super easy

That's the way my '05 GTI is. It's also easy to get in an out of the back seat even me, as a six footer. (shrug) To be fair, if/when we have a kid, it will not be the primary mode of transportation. Getting a seat in and out would not be fun. Otherwise I love my hot hatch.

Alan Cesar wrote: Sure, but we're not talking sports cars here. We're talking hot hatches. The cars have the exact same shape whether there are lines in the side for two doors versus four. A couple extra lines and a door handle on each side somehow transforms a car from a hideous beast to an amazing machine? I think you're analyzing the looks of these cars based on what they mean (two doors means sporty) instead of how they actually look, which is only marginally different. Even when I was a teenager, all hot and bothered for a GTI, I was determined that I'd get a 5-door GTI someday (not knowing if that was even possible). This was because I already owned a 3-door Ford Escort, and using the back seat sucked. Pull a lever to flip the seat forward, pull the other lever to slide the seat forward, then get in the back. Then the front seat passenger has to readjust the seat before she can even get back in. Super lame.

We're not even talking hot hatches. We're talking econo cars. From hideous to amazing? Hardly. From lame to acceptable, probably. Two doors meant sporty long before I was on the scene, and for good reason.

The stigma against 4 door cars was pretty much annihilated by cars like the STI and EVO with the younger generation. 4 doors in a 4 seat car is simply the most logical and most convenient way to design a car and most people can only afford 1 new car, and that's all that matters now.

I like coupes as well but there just isn't any logical reason to make a 3 door hatch and the general public doesn't care.

Almost nobody under 30 cares about this, if you do it's probably because of influence from someone who is older. I always had my dad and his friends say that three door cars is an "old mans car" around the mid/early 2000s during a time when the main cars all the young people in the import circles wanted were all 4 door or had 4 door options, in which nobody cared either way which one they had. STI, EVO, G35, BMWs, Audis..... then look at the cars made or brought here to compete with those... CTS, ATS, G8, Chargers.... now you have really high end awesome 4 doors like the XFR-S.

Also most pop culture icons drive chose to drive cars like a Bentley, 5 series bmws, or big 4 door Chryslers like the Charger in that 2000-2010 era. Football players, rappers, etc. It's to a point where Bentley is stereotyped as a professional athletes car.

I'm sorry but if you look at 4 door cars as undesirable you are looking at it with old man's eyes, they stopped being the retirees car well over a decade ago and there are plenty of smooth designs that are 4 door since this isn't 1960s/1970s car manufactuing era. Back then 4 door cars were "boxier" now either the coupe or 4 door looks exactly the same for most.

No complaints about the rear seat on a 2-door here.

Don't like sitting back there? Get your own damn car! You're lucky mine even has a back seat.

Yes, I had freeloading friends.

4-doors are ugly, always will be.

I'm over 30.

My lawn and such..

In reply to kanaric:

I think you're on to something. A couple years ago my twenty-something ex-gf and I were talking about cars. She's not into cars at all, but she said that when she sees someone has a newer two-door she assumes they have no friends. Basically, if you recently bought a fairly nice car, and you have friends, she sees no reason why you would buy a two-door. The two-door is only logical if you have no one you want to drive around with. She explicitly excluded pickup trucks and older cars (sometimes you just have a two-door because it's a hand-me-down or it's what you could find/afford at the time) from this judgment.

My guess is that most people born after 1970 don't strongly associate two-doors with sportiness like the Boomers do, so when manufacturers are doing the market research on a new design they often are finding that the efficiency/cost benefits of only offering one body (a la, the Cruze) outweigh the negligible loss of sales to people who would never buy a four-door.

I, for one, think it depends on the car. Some two-doors are stupid because they look just like the four-door (1g Neon, Golf, later 1g Focus "coupe," etc.) On the other hand, some two-doors are completely different and superior body-styles, I'm thinking Ef and EG Civic hatches. On a third list are cars that have back seats, but really they aren't meant for use by adults, the BRZ and older Mustangs and Camaros come to mind here.

Buy a jeep and have no doors. Problem solved!

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to kanaric: I think you're on to something. A couple years ago my twenty-something ex-gf and I were talking about cars. She's not into cars at all, but she said that when she sees someone has a newer two-door she assumes they have no friends. Basically, if you recently bought a fairly nice car, and you have friends, she sees no reason why you would buy a two-door. The two-door is only logical if you have no one you want to drive around with. She explicitly excluded pickup trucks and older cars (sometimes you just have a two-door because it's a hand-me-down or it's what you could find/afford at the time) from this judgment. My guess is that most people born after 1970 don't strongly associate two-doors with sportiness like the Boomers do, so when manufacturers are doing the market research on a new design they often are finding that the efficiency/cost benefits of only offering one body (a la, the Cruze) outweigh the negligible loss of sales to people who would never buy a four-door. I, for one, think it depends on the car. Some two-doors are stupid because they look just like the four-door (1g Neon, Golf, later 1g Focus "coupe," etc.) On the other hand, some two-doors are completely different and superior body-styles, I'm thinking Ef and EG Civic hatches. On a third list are cars that have back seats, but really they aren't meant for use by adults, the BRZ and older Mustangs and Camaros come to mind here.

I just love when people stereotype others …

in this case by the car they drive … I've always had friends … many friends … and I've always preferred 2 dr/3 dr cars …

I'm old now, but wasn't in the '70's/'60's when I developed my love for 3 dr cars ….

like I mentioned .. I'm older now … 2 dr/ 3 dr cars are MUCH easier to get into and out of for me … I'm tall and don't fold up as easily as I used to, and much prefer a car with the B pillar behind the back of the front seat ….

as someone else pointed out, if you don't want to ride in my back seat, then drive your own car …. I won't like/dislike you any more or less … we're still friends

so just because I like 2/3 dr cars DOESN'T mean I don't have friends

I am just going to point out I am under 30 and of the people that I would consider close friends, only one has a 4 door (excluding pickups). Also I have never owned a running four door.

Trans_Maro wrote: No complaints about the rear seat on a 2-door here. Don't like sitting back there? Get your own damn car! You're lucky mine even has a back seat. Yes, I had freeloading friends. 4-doors are ugly, always will be. I'm over 30. My lawn and such..

I completely agree. Most of the time it's my kids that have to get in the back. Anyone remember being a kid? You know, limber and all? I don't care if my kids have to crawl in and out of my car. Now they are 19 years old, and even they prefer my 2 door over the four door version. Plus, it's really not that hard to get in and out of the back anyways. Less doors and windows mean less stuff to go wrong, less stuff to rust, etc... And since I had a direct comparison when my twins were young, I'll say again that a 2 door is MUCH easier to get a kid in and out of a car seat. Why? Because it's a lot easier to access the seat head-on than from the side, assuming the same roof height in both vehicles. In my case it was an 89 Civic si versus a 94 GS-R four door and an 88 Civic wagon, which was harder than the Civic si even though it had a higher roof. Front>Side for car seats.

2 doors? 3 doors? 4 doors? Whatever. As long as it has a fart pipe on it I think it's cool, young, hip and sporty.

In reply to logdog:

Three freakin' pages of BS, and all it takes logdog is one sentence to straighten it all out.

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to kanaric: I think you're on to something. A couple years ago my twenty-something ex-gf and I were talking about cars. She's not into cars at all, but she said that when she sees someone has a newer two-door she assumes they have no friends. Basically, if you recently bought a fairly nice car, and you have friends, she sees no reason why you would buy a two-door. The two-door is only logical if you have no one you want to drive around with. She explicitly excluded pickup trucks and older cars (sometimes you just have a two-door because it's a hand-me-down or it's what you could find/afford at the time) from this judgment.

I assume that conversation is why she is now your "ex" girlfriend.

In reply to Sky_Render:

LOL, I did drive a 350Z and two-door 4Runner at the time!

I save my strong vehicle configuration opinions for the hatch vs. trunk debate.

Friends? Overrated.

Trans_Maro wrote: No complaints about the rear seat on a 2-door here. Don't like sitting back there? Get your own damn car! You're lucky mine even has a back seat. Yes, I had freeloading friends. 4-doors are ugly, always will be. I'm over 30. My lawn and such..

That's one of the best reasons my friends never wanted to climb in back so when we carpooled somewhere they would drive

I sometime like to image what my WRX would look like as a 3 door hatch instead of a 5 door mini wagon. I've had the car two years this month, and I've had a a back seat passenger exactly twice and it was the same person (to and from the airport). I typically keep the rear seats folded down. Would've bought a 3 door version in a second if one was available.

I drove a Spark a few weeks back as a rental. It made me wonder how it would be with a standard and a turbo. It would be better as a 3 door - at least in the styling department, if not the utility department.

CRZ

I can't be the only one who misses the era of hatchback pony cars. My paradigm of a Mustang or a Camarobird has a bigass hatch, preferably with a super complex piece of compound curve glass in it (with louvers over that).

jg

bgkast wrote: I'll be the first to say it: 3 door hatches suck. This from somebody that has owned several. I guess they were fine before kids, but trying to wrestle a baby into one SUCKS!

As soon as my son moved from a rear facing car seat to a front facing I got rid of the sedan and got a MINI. Fits two large car seats in there just fine. It is actually easier to get my son in it then it was to get my daughter into the A4 when we had the car seat in the center of the back seat.

Plus they love it - they can see so much better then in the back of a sedan.

If i had to haul kids I would just put them in the bed of a half ton truck on a piece of egg crate foam like my parents did. You people worry about safety and convenience too much.

In reply to JG Pasterjak:

You know, it was a bit of an awkward shape, but you could fit a lot in the back of a Fox body hatch with the back seats down, and it was easy as hell to get at too! Not the seemingly unlimited space sitting under the hatch of an Escort GT, but a good size anyway.

ShadowSix wrote: In reply to kanaric: I think you're on to something. A couple years ago my twenty-something ex-gf and I were talking about cars. She's not into cars at all, but she said that when she sees someone has a newer two-door she assumes they have no friends. Basically, if you recently bought a fairly nice car, and you have friends, she sees no reason why you would buy a two-door. The two-door is only logical if you have no one you want to drive around

Sometimes stereotypes are wrong. I have a four door and no friends.

JG Pasterjak wrote: I can't be the only one who misses the era of hatchback pony cars. My paradigm of a Mustang or a Camarobird has a bigass hatch, preferably with a super complex piece of compound curve glass in it (with louvers over that). jg

That would be great, as long as they are built better than they were the last time. Having owned both a hatchback fox body and a coupe, and loving fastbacks, I vastly preferred the coupe in that case because the hatchback was a rattle trap, and the loss of structural integrity was very noticeable. But I'd assume anything new at this point would be much better. Then again, you know what they say about assuming!

I love my 90s Japanese hatches.

I never felt a hatch on a car was an issue, regardless if it were the third door or fifth door. I have owned more than one or two of each style. The hatch just made the car more convenient to carry race tires & other things.

BTW: I doubt many of you would turn down a MGB GT or an XKE 2+2 if one came along at an reasonable price. They both look like three door hatchbacks to me!