decisions decisions...

I've been looking at the 2010 VW GTI, the 2010 Cooper S hardtop, the 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 (I don't mind the obnoxiously happy looking front end when 263hp is at the command of my right foot), and the 2010 Hyundai Genesis 2.0T R-Spec, and I genuinely can not decide which one. they all sit at around the same price, plus or minus ~$1000 (ranges from around $23,945 for the grinny MS3 to around $25,500 for the GTI and the Mini), all are designed to be fun to drive, and are rather sporty. the MS3 has the most power by far, but it's front wheel drive and I feel like that sort of power would let me make up for bad habits on track, thus developing said bad habits further and not really helping me maintain momentum. the GTI has less power than the MS3 and a few less than the Genesis Coupe, but it is lighter than both by at least 100 pounds on the 2 door (the one I'd go for, not interested in a 4 door), and has a pretty long history as a performance car. the Mini S has the least power of the whole list, but then again it weighs almost 400 pounds less than anything else on the list, and it's been very well established that they handle quite well. the Genesis Coupe is the second most powerful by 10 hp over the GTI, comes with Brembo brakes, a Torsen LSD, RWD, 19" rims with grippy summer tires, but it weighs the most out of the whole group (3294 pounds for the 2.0T, not sure how much weight is shaved by taking out the nonessential doodads). on a track, extracting a fast lap time out of a Genesis Coupe seems as if it would be more about maintaining momentum rather than mashing the gas at the soonest opportunity, like I could imagine would be the case for the MS3. the Mini seems as if it would be the most agile on track, since it is the smallest and the lightest. the GTI seems as if it would be a bit slower than anything except the Genesis Coupe, since it has roughly 10hp more than the Mini but nearly 400 pounds extra weight to carry around, and has 63hp less than the MS3 but only about 100 pounds less weight. the Genesis seems as if it would be the most fun once grip levels go down a bit and that 210hp doesn't have to work so hard to break traction of the rear wheels, but at the same time it might be a bit less fun compared to the Mini S in the dry, and just based on the smaller dimensions and the lower weight, the Mini would likely be a bit more fun on really twisty mountain roads. the MS3 would likely be the most fun for blasting around backroads and general hooliganizing, but cost of ownership MIGHT be a bit more than the other options, and it gets the worst milage of all the options. the Genesis Coupe with the 2.0T gets a bit better milage, then the GTI, then the Mini S. if I got the Mini, every bit of the maintance, excluding tires I think, is covered by MiniUSA. I definitely like all the features of the Genesis Coupe R-Spec, with the exception of the underpowered engine, but the Mini is a proven performance car, as is the GTI and the MS3. anyone got any input

Magazines that have tested JUST the Mazda and the VW (the recent issue of C&D?) give the nod to the GTI. For some reason, I don't think any mag has done a multi-car test that involved the Mini...except for maybe the British mags like Performance Car and CAR and EVO in their COTY/PCOTY issues which recently hit newstands.

In Europe, the Mini and GTI aren't really direct competitors, due to their size difference. And I skimmed the 3 British mags, and the Mazda....I don't think, ever beat the VW. The other "oddball". the Hyundai, is also "another kettle of fish"...so it's never compared to the others you have named.

RWD FTW. The Hyundai won't stay underpowered for long once the aftermarket gets hold of it.

Junkyard_Dog wrote: RWD FTW. The Hyundai won't stay underpowered for long once the aftermarket gets hold of it.

quoted for troooooth

I was beaten tot he RWD statement, but I can only agree. I have driven (raced lcoally) both types, fwd and rwd, and RWD is by far the more fun and fast.

Where can I find info on the R-spec?

I too am in your situation...

The GTi could get close to the MS3 power with a APR or GIAC programs, the 2010 engine is the same as the 2009... the only issue I've really seen with the MK6 GTi is the electronic "LSD" they have, if you're gonna track the car... it uses the brakes to prevent the slip so you might have some issues with that.

I do like the Gen Coupe as well and I'm just kinda taking it easy to see what the aftermarket can do cause I think that would be a ton of fun with say 275-300hp. Though it may break my VW heart. :-)

You could get a WRX hatch for about that price as well, though the style is kinda polarizing. VW does have the R20 coming (hopefully) as well...AWD and 265 (ish) hp/tq.

Look at that... a fairly long post for my first time outta the gate... great site I've been lurking a while.

at this point I'm thinking the Genesis R-Spec is the way to go, as it would be the most fun once grip levels go down a bit and TCS/ESC gets turned off. I can live with the underpowered bit for a while, since the Genesies Coupe does have a 15.7lb/hp power/weight ratio (210hp) on regular, and a roughly 14.4lb/hp power/weight ratio (228hp) on premium pump gas, compared to the 19.1lb/hp power/weight ratio of the auto trans Escort ZX-2 I drive now, and the Escort can get up and boogie (ok maybe not boogie but it won't get outrun by an old Citroen 2CV either) when prompted by my right foot. plus, if I want a bit more motivation, I can see about getting the ECU reflashed (might be able to break the engine of it's habit of hanging the throttle on upshifts, too) or perhaps a high-flow air filter (K&N probably) or even fiddling about with the turbo

I'd wait to see what the pricing is on the '11 Mustang is... they're supposed to hit lots come April.

Base models will be 305hp 3.7L DOHC Duratec V6 with a Getrag 6-speed and limited-slip.

The answer is Miata

(sorry, I had to)

You sort of state what each car is good at, but you don't say what you want out of the car. My standard answer for this price range is.... Volvo C30. Greatplatform, built like a vault, lot's of potential to fix it's percevied shortcomings and the best looker of the bunch. If daily driving comes into you need list this is the clear winner.

a Miata would work, except that doesn't have anything matching the description of a rear seat and compared to the rest of the options there isn't a whole awful lot of room in the trunk. I'm after a car that will be fun to drive day to day, can handle autoX and the occasional track day, won't be torturous to drive 100+ miles for when I go to VIR or the DC area (have some friends up there), has predictable and sporty handling, has reasonably good power, and most importantly must have the ability to put a smile on my face when I drive it. I looked into the C30 a bit, and I do REALLY like the styling on it, but I just don't really like it as a car for some reason. it just lacks a certain personality of sorts. the Mini, well, it's a Mini, I don't have to even try to go into the personality those have. the GTI has plaid seats and funny red lines connecting it's headlights. the MS3 says hello and goodbye to you and looks obnoxiously happy. the Genesis is RWD and if you look hard enough at the front end you can sort of make out a face that reminds me vaguely of those posters from communist north Korea (the weird grinning Korean dude telling you to take a day of vacation). the C30 has none of those things, it lends itself quite well to being simply an appliance, and I want something that prompts a smile, even a slight one, when I look at it or drive it. it might sound strange, but I've never been accused of being normal

Do what I did... get both the ms3 and the Mini. Give said Mini to the wife. Let shens ensue.

I'd do that except I don't have $50K to drop, otherwise the list would have exploded into a bunch of other options. also, I don't have a wife (or even a girlfriend for that matter) to give the Mini to

Cobalt SS ?

looked at it, liked it until I realized it had WAY too much front overhang. I'd end up tearing off the front bumper going into/out of my driveway (heavily crested road meeting a driveway that slopes down a bit. not terribly good for low sporty cars) within a week unless I made a ramp. (think like the problem that Top Gear had when they tested the Zonda, the Ford GT, and the F430 Spyder in London trying to get out of the carpark) ah well. I don't think the Genesis Coupe would have that problem, nor would the Mini or the GTI or the MS3 (ok the MS3 is iffy, but better than the Cobalt by lightyears in front overhang), and if it would, to me that's the sort of car you find a solution that doesn't involve getting a different car

I've raced FWD and RWD, FWD is fun, but less challenging but you're probably not going to go race a 24000 dollar car the second you buy it anyway.

Id say go with the RWD, when it rains, and you're at a uphill stopsign, attempting to go, in a FWD car, its a pain in the ass.

Also, if you ever encounter a skidpad, RWD are a LOT more fun!!!!

Everybody already knows what I am going to say.....RWD FTW

Steven, you're right, I'm going to put at least 1,000 miles on the engine before I compete in my first autoX, and 1,500-2,000 miles before my first track day at VIR, just to be damn sure that everything is broken in properly and all the parts in the engine have gotten acclimated to being, well, an engine, same with the gearbox and differential and all that, and if I go RWD, the ring&pinion of the differential. and right now, it's looking like the Genesis Coupe R-Spec is the popular vote. anyone know when the R-Specs are supposed to come over? I've heard mid-2010 but that's just hearsay to my knowledge