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¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
12/6/21 2:27 p.m.

I've been kicking around the idea of replacing our trusty Impreza Outback Sport hatch with something a little more engaging to drive and better on the highway, and can't get the idea of an IS300 sportcross out of my head- it has the interior space we want, robust Toyota underpinnings, enough power to be fun, and a well documented path to put a manual transmission in.

What do I need to know about these, other than that the sportcross is rare and hard to find and that many of the sedans have been destroyed by the drift guys?  Anybody own one and want to tell me what's terrible about it?

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/6/21 2:35 p.m.

I remember the last time this was brought up, the major issues were that the automatic wasn't well matched with the engine and that it was thirsty.

Sure swapping to a turbo I6 helps with the power (and efficiency if you're careful with the throttle), but I believe that isn't as easy as it sounds to accomplish.

I'm with your though, it sounds great on paper, I'm curious about the realities.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
12/6/21 2:36 p.m.

Con: Supra/drift tax means manual trans for that engine are getting harder to find and more expensive. Poor fuel economy (we're talking like 20 MPG). VVTi 2JZ are the weakest ones.

Pro: They look really nice. Comfortable interior with early Lexus durability that has aged well. And of course, "2JZ no E36 M3"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
12/6/21 2:37 p.m.

There is also a kit to adapt a CD009, which is seemingly becoming the standard manual trans to throw in everything at this point.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/6/21 2:39 p.m.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
12/6/21 2:41 p.m.

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

Well crap I should have convinced dannyP84 his is terrible and just bought it from him!

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
12/6/21 2:56 p.m.

I've had a sportcross for 4 or 5 years now, I bought it almost solely on the fact that it looked cool and I knew the cars to be reliable, as a good friend with the sedan version commuted  80 mi round trip for 5 years with his, on top of drifting the car probably 8-12 weekends a year with a mostly stock powertrain. My car has over 200k miles, the only things I've had to do during my tenure so far is replace control arms, timing belt and water pump, and keep the MAF sensor clean. The factory airbox has a sort of ram air effect which seems to dirty the sensor easily. I did the 5 speed swap using all oem sedan parts other than the Supra flywheel about 2 years ago, it was fairly easy to do other than the pedal install. The car will run on the auto ecu but it will feel sluggish and not very responsive, I got an ECU from Quantum that improved the driving experience immensely, but if I had it to do over again I would let someone more knowledgeable just swap in a manual ecu and have the keys coded for it.

The car is a lot of fun on windy roads with a good alignment to eliminate some of the front push tendencies of the heavy motor. It also covers ground on the highway in relative comfort, (though I don't love the seats) but the best mpg I've ever seen is 23-24 highway. Around town is more like 18. If you let the lower ball joint get bad enough, the wheel can collapse and ruin your front fenders, from what I'm told. You can almost guarantee that the cars with the alcantara seats are gonna look rough by now, mine are fuzzy and stained, but they do hold you in better than the all leather seats. No lumbar adjustment is really annoying, so is the arm rest location once you 5 speed swap. Cup holders are not designed for American size beverages. For some reason my hvac system only blows hot on the passenger side, but that's not a common problem as far as I know. 

The motor sounds wonderful right around 4k rpm with gentle throttle input, but one of the previous owners removed the cat, so even with a resonator and muffler it's too raspy for my taste at WOT. Very torquey midrange, and will pull strong to redline if properly tuned, but a 330ci from the same era will feel more responsive and powerful throughout the powerband, despite the numbers being similar. The amount of stuff you can fit into the sportcross with the seats folded is kind of astounding, and the rear hatch area has a clever folding floor so you can choose between flat loading surface or deeper luggage capacity. However, rear legroom is not impressive. The sportcross has a factory subwoofer and numerous hidden storage spots. I think the chassis feels fairly lively and playful as long as you don't compare it to a sports car.

Mine always feels like it's just a handful of little adjustments away from being a perfect daily. If you can find one, check the VVTI cam gear for oil leaks. The car was built with Toyota logic, so it's fairly straightforward to work on, though it's a long motor in a short engine bay. Nothing on the rear suspension is enjoyable to service or replace, removing the diff is a pain, so are the upper control arms. Bumpers on the sportcross are unique and expensive, same with the roof moldings and rear tail lights. I think the sportcross will be a better highway car than your Subaru as far as eating up miles at high speed with not too much road noise, though these cars are geared a little short and you won't be impressed by the mpg. Let me know if you have other questions, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things..

 

Some cons I remember which you can probably find on my post about avoiding new car -itis: After doing the 5 speed swap my cruise still doesn't work despite the quantum ecu, it could work if I did a manual ecu and repinned some stuff in the harness. As I said above, the chassis feels fairly lively, but my other car is an RX-7, which I guess could best be described as kinda "fizzy" in terms of really feeling fun to drive. It's not fair to compare the two cars, especially since one is a no power steering sports car from the 80's, but the Lexus doesn't really hide the fact that it's a 3300 lb wagon. I live on a windy road in the hills so this is probably more important to me than someone who commutes 20 mi on the highway. The flip side to this is that it is measurably more comfortable than the Mazda. Owner's manual specifies premium fuel, which stings extra due to the poor mpg. Headlights glaze over easily and are not cheap to replace. 

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
12/6/21 2:59 p.m.

In reply to Stefan (Forum Supporter) :

Turbo 2J engines are going for absurd money these days, I think I saw $7k last year during the height of covid. IMO not worth it unless you have some sort of emotional attachment to that engine. 

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/6/21 3:02 p.m.

I had an IS300 5-speed sedan and really, really wanted to love it but never warmed up to it.

Abysmal fuel economy (sub-20 MPG on premium was my experience) was the biggest thing for me, but it also wasn't very quick and I never warmed up to the interior (particularly the seats which were extremely uncomfortable to me). IIRC it is also very difficult to get more power out of them without FI.

If you go into one looking to modify it you can probably end up with a pretty awesome car (I still love the exterior styling and Toyota reliability is what it is) but it was really disappointing stock. The BMW E46 330 I had shortly after was a better car in just about every way.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
12/6/21 3:06 p.m.

In reply to dannyp84 :

Thanks for the detailed response, much appreciated.  It mostly sounds like what I'm looking for, definitely let me know if you want to sell yours!

MPG I had heard about, crappy seats are a surprise but oh well.  Rear legroom doesn't matter much, the back seat is for dogs not people.  cheeky

re: BMW comparison- understood, and I did like our 318ti, I'm just not sure that BMWs are the right choice for the abuse to maintenance ratio that we like to see out of our vehicles.

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
12/6/21 3:19 p.m.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

here is mine after I put it on the 350z wheels since I cracked one of my beloved Panasports, I've since raised the front a little and it feels a lot better mid corner.. I will admit that I have occasionally considered selling it to get a newer Toyota 86/frs or a Miata, but I also did that thing I told myself I wouldn't do to this car: which is sinking a lot of money into suspension, paint and the 5 speed swap so that I could probably never sell it for what I have in it.. good thing I like the car most of the time :)

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/6/21 3:24 p.m.

Already manual but not wagon, I'd go with an Infiniti G35

Already wagon but not manual, I'd go with an Infiniti EX35

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
12/6/21 3:30 p.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

I have actually considered manual swapping an FX35 or 45 as well.  Dogs and camping require a wagon or reasonably sized hatchback, but those are a bit big.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/6/21 3:33 p.m.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

I would subscribe to your build thread and be willing to buy your shop manual!!

 

One wrecked G35 manual sedan should get you what you need.  

Duke
Duke MegaDork
12/6/21 3:38 p.m.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

All I can tell you is that in 2006 I was cross-shopping used IS300s and 325is.  I ended up buying the BMW because I didn't find the Lexus's power advantage to be that noticeable in daily driving, it didn't handle as well, and I was not a huge fan of the interior.

Plus, at the time, for the same price point the E46s typically had half the mileage and were in better shape.  That little bit of information is 15 years out of date, but these days I see a hundred decent-looking E46s around for every beat-to-crap, third-owner IS300.

[edit]  I put 100k on my E46 as daily and autocrosser, and never had any issues with it that I didn't consider routine DIY maintenance.  It was a little overdue for the 120k coolant system refresh when I sold it, but I wasn't particularly dreading that job since sub-kilobuck replacement kits are easy to find and step-by-step instructions are on YouTube and most specialist parts house websites.  The only reason I sold it is that I also had my wife's TSX, which was a year newer and had 60% of the mileage.

[edit^2]  Danny's Sportcross there is a very nice looking wagon.

 

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
12/6/21 3:46 p.m.
Duke said:

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

All I can tell you is that in 2006 I was cross-shopping used IS300s and 325is.  I ended up buying the BMW because I didn't find the Lexus's power advantage to be that noticeable in daily driving, it didn't handle as well, and I was not a huge fan of the interior.

Plus, at the time, for the same price point the E46s typically had half the mileage and were in better shape.  That little bit of information is 15 years out of date, but these days I see a hundred decent-looking E46s around for every beat-to-crap, third-owner IS300.

 

^ This is very relevant. Though the Lexus is probably more durable and dependable than the E46, the 3rd 4th and 5th owners of the IS300 seem to always be ex-Honda civic guys, and they often treat the IS300 to cheap modifications and a general lack of care. Someone replaced the little cubby on top of the dash on mine because there are two versions and one is more useful, and it looks like they took a fork to the tabs that hide the screws. No cracking subframes to worry about like the E46, though.

 In reply to John, a G35 will absolutely leave the IS300 for dead in a straight line race, if that matters to you. 

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
12/6/21 3:49 p.m.

I imaging most IS300s are absurdity priced, or haggard and crack pipe priced at this point.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ PowerDork
12/6/21 3:49 p.m.

To be honest, the correct answer here may be right under my nose- replace the Impreza with a WRX of similar vintage, move the skidplate and springs over, and maybe add some sound deadening if I want it to be nicer on the highway.  But that's a boring answer, hence this thread.

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
12/6/21 3:55 p.m.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

To be honest, the correct answer here may be right under my nose- replace the Impreza with a WRX of similar vintage, move the skidplate and springs over, and maybe add some sound deadening if I want it to be nicer on the highway.  But that's a boring answer, hence this thread.

Don't forget about the E46 touring, if you look hard enough you can find a factory manual car, and they aren't as hard to find in well-cared for condition. Or the Legacy wagon with the flat 6 for burning down miles on the highway. 

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/6/21 3:57 p.m.
John Welsh said:

Already manual but not wagon, I'd go with an Infiniti G35

Already wagon but not manual, I'd go with an Infiniti EX35

I have always been surprised that the EX35 isn't better known. It's just a slightly raised G35 with a wagon rear end, and seems to be totally off the radar of the stance/drift bros, so it is relatively easy to find nice ones.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/6/21 4:00 p.m.

In reply to pointofdeparture :

I have to admit that before this thread I didn't know the EX was a thing. 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/6/21 4:06 p.m.

'08-'12 named EX35

'13 only named EX37 w/ 3.7L engine

'14-'17 named QX50 w/ 3.7L

Available in rwd or awd.  I'd like to see a rwd fitted with some staggered 370z wheels and maybe slightly lowered.  Sadly, the car seems to have been marketed/styled to a female buyer.  Lots of beige-tone colors.  But the black above looks great.  

Wiki

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
12/6/21 4:58 p.m.
John Welsh said:

'08-'12 named EX35

'13 only named EX37 w/ 3.7L engine

'14-'17 named QX50 w/ 3.7L

Available in rwd or awd.  I'd like to see a rwd fitted with some staggered 370z wheels and maybe slightly lowered.  Sadly, the car seems to have been marketed/styled to a female buyer.  Lots of beige-tone colors.  But the black above looks great.  

Wiki

What's the difference between the EX37 and FX37? I've seen the latter lowered on what I think were GTR wheels..

Captdownshift (Forum Supporter)
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
12/6/21 6:00 p.m.

I've always wondered if a 1UZ swap would fit in a first generation IS...

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
12/6/21 6:01 p.m.

In reply to dannyp84 :

The EX is a G37 on stilts with a hatch, the FX is a luxed-up Nissan Murano (bigger, conventional crossover/SUV).

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