Do modern cars shape modern drivers?

Some may say we have safer cars today but are the drivers safer? I feel the answer is no and its all due to the automakers making normal drivers reliant on the saftey features of cars. Back 30+ years ago even women knew to watch the temp gauge, pump the brakes of you dont get anything ect but today I feel drivers are getting "dumber" if you will soley because are cars are getting smarter. People are already getting into the habit of watching the backup camera instead of actually turning around, ect. Anyone else feel this way or am I starting to turn old and crusty. Any other thoughts or comments? I know we are a niche group of drivers who actually drive but just the other day someone suggested the car with the best stability control possible for a new girl driver instead of saying give them some gravel road lessons or enroll her in scca young driver bootcamp whatever its called.

:popcorn:

Even 'back in the day', as is still the case today, the vast majority of people only knew as much about their cars and driving as was absolutely necessary to function in the most common scenarios. It would seem that such people are also more readily embracing of these ever changing base skill sets than the historically limited number of genuine enthusiasts.

I'm not sure if the modern car is entirely to blame for the declining skill behind the wheel. I also blame hand-held phones / i-pods etc. Driving with most folks under 30 years old is a terrifying experience. Most of these drivers can't go 10 seconds without checking their device, sending a text, or messing with the music settings. It's the short-attention span that is helping to make these drivers worse. They just can't sit still and concentrate on driving.

It's scary to notice how many drivers are texting (or otherwise using their devices) while behind the wheel. Before the late 80s drunk driving was rampant, and many young people died as a result. In came M.A.D.D. and tons of media coverage---- the culture changed, and now drunk driving is much less of a problem than it once was. (especially amongst young people) We need that same sort of outrage against in-car devices.

Sadly, I don't see this coming, as the infusion of more and more tech is appealing to drivers who would rather check Facebook while behind the wheel than check their blind spot. (don't worry--- the car will do that for you anyways) With these zombies behind the wheel---- and manufacturers adding to the problem by making cars more and more tech interactive----- the future isn't bright. For these folks who value "likes" more than apexes, automated cars are probably the answer. I just hope Big Brother will still allow the rest of us to drive for ourselves. ( hopefully they won't decide to "save us from ourselves?" )

In reply to Driven5:

I see your point but as you said people only know as much about the cars as needed. My point was cars were so much more involved (how many times you see anyone pop their hood at the service station to check fluid today) the drivers by default we so much more involved with their cars and driving itself. before stability control people either wrecked or knew how to steer through slipper situations. Todays stability controls wont even allow a tire to slide in most conditions but when something too terrible for the stability control to, well, control the situation the driver isnt accustomed of what to do to save ones dairiare. One example is I have whitnessed my almost 80 year old grandmother execute a perfectly controlled powerslide in a pre electronics era car like nothing happened when a younger 23year old male friend is unable to control any slide in his car once he clicks off the nannies.

Edit in reply to Joe: I know the whole cell phone issue is even worse but thats a whole other rant. In a world where everyone is glued to a cell phone it makes sense people don't care when is an appropriate time to look at the phone but unfortunately its not just young people. The scariest drive is my 60 year old father who likes to play with his phone while driving but thinks the law is just for "young folks who cant drive anyways" as he falls off the shoulder... oh and police are the worst! I know they have the laptop they HAVE to use (still not safe) but I see cops on cell phones all the time.

chiodos wrote: I know we are a niche group of drivers who actually drive but just the other day someone suggested the car with the best stability control possible for a new girl driver instead of saying give them some gravel road lessons or enroll her in scca young driver bootcamp whatever its called.

Well we do have both, but no one bothers with learning just rather leave stability control on..remember this is America, driving is a RIGHT not a privilege. Ha ha ha. Thats the mentality of lots of drivers ive encountered though.

"Do modern cars shape modern drivers?"

Yes, of course they do, in every way possible ! ! !

Of course they do. Have you seen how big seats are these days?

Ultimately, regardless of our subjective opinions, the objective answer here is to simply look at total crash rates. So far I haven't found the ideal comprehensive historical set of statistical data yet, but if things like this (declining) crash rate study is indicative of anything...I would be surprise if it's nearly the doom and gloom that our inherently rose-colored-glasses memories vs current observations typically seem to make thing out to be.

I agree with Joe. Years ago when I started driving, drunk driving was frowned upon of course, but not to the same degree as today. It started getting aggressively targeted towards the late '80's.

To the other point, I was following a young to work this morning who was driving in two lanes and sometimes off the road. This went on during rush hour and for about 15 miles. He was in a beat to hell early 2000's Accord, and was texting the entire time. When we got to a 4-lane section I blew by him and never looked back. Have no idea how long he was texting, but I could see him let go of the wheel to text multiple times, during which the car would swerve all over the place. I'd like to say this an isolated incident, but sadly it is not, and not always confined to the younger set.

How much do I know about laundry? Insert clothes, dump soap, press go. I'm sure that plenty of people are very passionate about matching colors, fabrics, using the proper temperature, knowing what those little symbols on the tag mean, but I don't give a berkeley. Clean clothes are quite necessary in being an upstanding citizen, but it doesn't mean I want to devote any more effort to the process than I need to.

I belive its a combination of safety features and short attention spans. Young drivers like to check all of their various devices and they know that modern cars will save them to some degree. I agree that texting and driving should be punished to the same degree as drunk driving. And Im not some old fart that thinks tech is evil. Im not even 20 and I do appreciate some tech. But I daily drive a 1980 280zx with no power anything and I feel like it has made me a better driver than others in my age group. And I dont think its because of the lack of tech, I think it is because driving that car is deliberate. You have to pay attention to your surrounding and anticipate things which is something modern cars lack.

Things will start to get even stranger as cars edge closer to being fully automated.

The last cars before the self-driving ones will be pretty scary, at least for those who have driven cars before or after them.

Driven5 wrote: Ultimately, regardless of our subjective opinions, the objective answer here is to simply look at total crash rates. So far I haven't found the ideal comprehensive historical set of statistical data yet, but if things like this (declining) crash rate study is indicative of anything...I would be surprise if it's nearly the doom and gloom that our inherently rose-colored-glasses memories vs current observations typically seem to make thing out to be.

That study is 5 years old. I'd be interested in seeing what the last 5 years looks like.

As someone who drives every day, all day, texting has gone through the roof. I end up blowing the horn at a texter at least once a day.

Personally, I'd like to see texting ranked right up there with DUI in terms of punishment. The drunks are at least trying to pay attention.

chiodos wrote: Well we do have both, but no one bothers with learning just rather leave stability control on..remember this is America, driving is a RIGHT not a privilege. Ha ha ha. Thats the mentality of lots of drivers ive encountered though.

I had a judge assure me very convincingly that, in fact, driving is a privilege not a right It almost slowed me down, only growing up made me less of a menace to society.

On topic, I still have the right to choose not to own a car with all the nannies. So until that time comes that's what I'll do.

aircooled wrote: The last cars before the self-driving ones will be pretty scary, at least for those who have driven cars before or after them.

I'm curious as to how you think they are pretty scary, because we're currently on the last cars before the self driving ones.

MCarp22 wrote:

aircooled wrote: The last cars before the self-driving ones will be pretty scary, at least for those who have driven cars before or after them.

I'm curious as to how you think they are pretty scary, because we're currently on the last cars before the self driving ones.

Ok, I'll bite...

They're too damn fast. No, I'm not talking performance cars - we truly are in the golden-era there. I'm talking about 200hp+ vanilla mid-size sedans with no sporting pretense, 230hp minivans, and massive land-bage SUVs. Many of them are capable of 16-second 1/4-mile times or less, and even this Motortrend article of the 20-slowest cars of 2015 only lists 2 vehicles with a 0-60 time greater than 10-seconds. Only in comparison to these other modern vehicles is 10-seconds "slow".

The average driver is not trained to deal with this level of performance, and modern safety features do too much to compensate for the driver's inabilities.

I think the cars are helping some weak points. Things such as advanced materials and engineering, ABS, Blind Spot Detection, Stability control, and other safety mechanisms have probably prevented quite a few wrecks and turned what would have been fatal wrecks into things people have walked away from.

However, as it has been said, distracted driving has probably caused more fender benders than the modern safety devices have prevented.

I have a Toyota Minivan right now as a rental. That thing will move out surprisingly well. I think it would've been a near supercar that seats 7 if I could only time warp it back to 1983.

Texting is a big deal. People as a whole are getting dumber and dumber and cars are getting smarter and smarter. I really don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg though.

Mitchell wrote: How much do I know about laundry? Insert clothes, dump soap, press go. I'm sure that plenty of people are very passionate about matching colors, fabrics, using the proper temperature, knowing what those little symbols on the tag mean, but I don't give a berkeley. Clean clothes are quite necessary in being an upstanding citizen, but it doesn't mean I want to devote any more effort to the process than I need to.

Egads! You are not a laundry enthusiast!?

Got me a Bosch unit with a manual transmission and some mods to get drum speed high enough to squeeze 100% of the water out. I don't even own a dryer. Those things are for bitches who don't know how to wash.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

Mitchell wrote: How much do I know about laundry? Insert clothes, dump soap, press go. I'm sure that plenty of people are very passionate about matching colors, fabrics, using the proper temperature, knowing what those little symbols on the tag mean, but I don't give a berkeley. Clean clothes are quite necessary in being an upstanding citizen, but it doesn't mean I want to devote any more effort to the process than I need to.

Egads! You are not a laundry enthusiast!? Got me a Bosch unit with a manual transmission and some mods to get drum speed high enough to squeeze 100% of the water out. I don't even own a dryer. Those things are for bitches who don't know how to wash.

You get more performance out of a dryer if you take the filter out and just run a dump pipe.

just remember this. Fiat brought out the 124 with the Twin Cam engine.. a lot of those engines met a premature death because people did not see a need to replace a "fan belt" every 20,000 miles.

Fiat also had to discontinue the oil pressure gage on those cars. the TC runs low pressure at idle and many were coming back to the dealer for that "problem"

but really, the issue is not just in cars. I was just reading an article on sailing schools where "chequebook sailors" have no idea how the systems of their boats work and even the smallest thing going wrong will strand them

In reply to N Sperlo:

Hey man, where you been? Haven't seen you posting much lately. So as not to threadjack... do you dynamically balance your dryer drum with steel shot?

chiodos wrote: In reply to Driven5: I see your point but as you said people only know as much about the cars as needed. My point was cars were so much more involved (how many times you see anyone pop their hood at the service station to check fluid today) the drivers by default we so much more involved with their cars and driving itself. before stability control people either wrecked or knew how to steer through slipper situations. Todays stability controls wont even allow a tire to slide in most conditions but when something too terrible for the stability control to, well, control the situation the driver isnt accustomed of what to do to save ones dairiare. One example is I have whitnessed my almost 80 year old grandmother execute a perfectly controlled powerslide in a pre electronics era car like nothing happened when a younger 23year old male friend is unable to control any slide in his car once he clicks off the nannies.

This is not a new phenomenon. 25 years ago one of my sisters got an expensive lesson in not opening the hood and checking the fluid levels. She ran her Civic out of oil on road trip between San Francisco and LA. After that she started paying attention.