Do you consider it "racing"?

racerfink wrote: Good thing they have all that run-off room! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1qrpMh98u8 From the other car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tcxXGYdaY

When the MARRS series hosts the Carolina Cup series they have some short enduros and spec racer Fords are out with the Miatas and small bore IT cars. It's scary as hell. I practiced in the rain at Charlotte w/ SRFs and Miatas/smallbores. Also scary. There's a reason SRFs/Miatas/ITs/open wheel + sports racers all have their own run groups.

And don't get me started on putting FV + 500/600 and P1/2, FA, B, C cars all together.

racerfink wrote: Good thing they have all that run-off room! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1qrpMh98u8 From the other car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tcxXGYdaY

You............................................................> the point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bxcWExWmfI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rVdS8Qnvb8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6viMePWu3tg

You mean to tell me Lime Rock is worse than that? You know how I know you don't know E36 M3?

Bobzilla wrote:

racerfink wrote: Good thing they have all that run-off room! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1qrpMh98u8 From the other car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tcxXGYdaY

You............................................................> the point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bxcWExWmfI You mean to tell me Lime Rock is worse than that? You know how I know you don't know E36 M3?

Well, atleast in Hillclimb you know where the rocks and trees are. They don't come out and get you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gykx2f2b_A

EDIT: NOt my car... I DNF'd by not making it to VA for this race

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Auto-x is technically racing... there is a clock. I see it more as a "game of skill" though. It isn't what I think of when I think of racing anymore. I don't want that to sound like I'm dissing on it though.

"I'm not racist but..."

The point I was disputing, was how 'SAFE' road racing was, because of all the run-off room.

D_Eclipse9916 wrote: Just to throw in a mix as someone else did. A Race car's definition. In my opinion, it is something caged, and built to a specific rule set, but I see HPDE/TT/Autox cars marked as "race cars" all the time. This bothers the E36 M3 outta me for NO reason.

Ok, so my Elantra is a race car, because it was built (by the manufacturer) to a specific rules set (autocross stock classes), but an F1 car is not a race car because it does not have a roll cage...

How's that working out for you?

In reply to Jerry:

I'm actually being serious - I started there and when it was the only motorsports I knew and it seemed pretty real to me then. I've put 15 years and a lot of different kinds of racing between then and now and ... it's a matter of perspective I guess. I feel differently now. I still enjoy hooning in a parking lot. So... I'm really not disparaging it excepting for people's need to legitimize it somehow as something it isn't. It is what it is... a fun, safe way to compete with your car if there is some other reason (money, safety, possession of some sort of common sense, etc) you don't want to go racing.

Auto-x is something I recommend to HPDE students who struggle with car control and precision because like the skid pad - it offers a safe way to learn the skills to move up the ladder further. I just don't get taking it to extremes w/o just moving up that ladder. Why stay and be the world's greatest tiddly-winks player when you can graduate to Chutes -n- Ladders?

Crap. I did it again.

racerfink wrote: The point I was disputing, was how 'SAFE' road racing was, because of all the run-off room.

Again.... You................................................................... The point. I can safely saywith most certainty that the comment about runoff room was made in jest. But when you do compare it to things like hill climbs, it is safer than falling 2k feet down a rocky embankment going 100mph. Nelson Ledges "tire walls" included.

In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:

Some of us just don't have the disposable income to buy a 4th car, prepare it, go to driving schools to get a license and then go racing knowing that what you are in you have to be ready to walk away from and start all over if some moron beside you can't drive. Hell, some of us don't even have tracks that we can do that with within a 4 hour drive. Each way.

So we do the next best thing that we can, we auto-x. It sure beats sitting on the couch watching reruns and making fun of someone for doing what they enjoy and spending time with friends.

Bobzilla wrote: But when you do compare it to things like hill climbs, it is safer than falling 2k feet down a rocky embankment going 100mph. Nelson Ledges "tire walls" included.

You say that - but in the video I saw both those guys walked away. Let's just leave it at both time attack and road racing can be fatal. Disputing which is more dangerous is like asking "Would you rather be shot or stabbed".

Bobzilla wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: Some of us just don't have the disposable income to buy a 4th car, prepare it, go to driving schools to get a license and then go racing knowing that what you are in you have to be ready to walk away from and start all over if some moron beside you can't drive. Hell, some of us don't even have tracks that we can do that with within a 4 hour drive. Each way. So we do the next best thing that we can, we auto-x. It sure beats sitting on the couch watching reruns and making fun of someone for doing what they enjoy and spending time with friends.

I agree 100%. This is how lemons and chump got born... guys couldn't reach the next rung and so they invented one. Unfortunately for your locale - I can only recommend that you move.

AutoX is racing. It's not as high on the racing food chain as SCCA club racing which isn't as high on the racing food chain as the sprint cup series; but it's still racing.

If I play 3 on 3 basketball in a work league it's not the same as being in the NBA; but I'm still playing basketball.

Who cares as long as you are having fun.

racerfink wrote: Good thing they have all that run-off room! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1qrpMh98u8 From the other car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tcxXGYdaY

Good, now show me where the runoff room is on a hillclimb.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=3975152785257&l=9100509840171394877

We're talking about this as a point of comparison, and I already recognized that Limerock is dangerous for a road course.

Bobzilla wrote: In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker: So we do the next best thing that we can, we auto-x. It sure beats sitting on the couch watching reruns and making fun of someone for doing what they enjoy and spending time with friends.

Yup. Hell, 85% of the reason I went to the Nationals last weekend was to hang out with all my Ohio friends that were going, meet new friends (I did, in droves), and watch some good RACING. There, yes I said it!

Bobzilla wrote:

racerfink wrote: Good thing they have all that run-off room! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1qrpMh98u8 From the other car https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8tcxXGYdaY

You............................................................> the point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bxcWExWmfI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rVdS8Qnvb8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6viMePWu3tg You mean to tell me Lime Rock is worse than that? You know how I know you don't know E36 M3?

Dude, there's like miles of run off there. No barriers, no trees, what are you whining about. Those guys could roll harmlessly out of the way without hitting anything big!

Bloody Bob Costas hillclimber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMZwfkQHco

I didn't mean to make this a size comparison argument. I do think people who look down on other forms of motorsport due to relative safety need to cut it out. Yes, autocross is safe. That's a good thing, not a bad one. We need entry-level motorsports to continue having high-level motorsports.

I started in Hillclimbs then moved to the states where I did autocross, then Track days, then circuit racing and back to (very occasional) track days and autocross. Honestly even if I had the money I don't think I'd want the time commitment of circuit racing anymore. Given money I'd probably do hillclimbs if they were realistically close enough not to need vacation days. All forms of racing (motorsport) are fun. Any form of racing (motorsport) can be a means to an end for any individual. One is not better than the other, they are just different.

Try explaining the concept of a track day to a lay person, you'll get a blank stare. Say racing and they'll get it, even though a track day, very much by definition isn't racing as it doesn't involve timing.

One thing that always amazes me about racing (motorsport) of all types is that essentialy you have to compete to do it. If you want to ski, you spend 99% of your time skiing, and even if you're a racer you spend only a tiny % of the time actually 'racing' Same if you sail, skateboard, bicycle etc. But with cars to enjoy them at the limit you have to go to a track, parking lot, hillclimb etc. The 'play' time to 'race' time ratio is way way off compared to other sports. But when you go for a run, or go to the ski hill you are still participating in a sport. Motorsport doesn't seem to be judged that way.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Bloody Bob Costas hillclimber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMZwfkQHco

Nope. Not me. Uh uh. I'll stick with Autocrossing.

“There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.”

― E. Hemingway

Even when all I did was rallyX, I too struggled with calling it racing and usually did not. But that's just for me.

Bobzilla wrote:

D_Eclipse9916 wrote: Just to throw in a mix as someone else did. A Race car's definition. In my opinion, it is something caged, and built to a specific rule set, but I see HPDE/TT/Autox cars marked as "race cars" all the time. This bothers the E36 M3 outta me for NO reason.

My auto-x car is built to a specific rule set. Wouldn't that make it a racecar by your standards?

you missed "caged". Unless your autox car is caged - unnecessarily?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: This is how lemons and chump got born... guys couldn't reach the next rung and so they invented one.

That....that's pretty elitist right there. I think this attitude is common in club racing and that's a bigger part of why LeMons and Chump got born. There are a lot of people out there mixing it up in crapcans that could be club racing. It costs just as much or more than campaigning an IT car.

KyAllroad wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Bloody Bob Costas hillclimber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxMZwfkQHco

Nope. Not me. Uh uh. I'll stick with Autocrossing.

Are you kidding me? That makes me want to become rich so I can do that!!!

TSD rallies are not racing. Drifting is not racing.

Tyler H wrote: Autox is maddening to do well, with a steep learning curve. I respect the enthusiasts and their skills. A good autox-er generally has the car control skills to go up the motorsport ladder where the stakes are higher. A talented "race car driver" may not have the skills and patience to excel at autox, going the other way. I'll just call it all "Motorsport" and be done with it. Beats spectating, which is why even Mr. Grumpy is hoofing cones and not mowing his lawn, no matter what he says.

LOL … we auto crossers have a saying (and I also "race" LeMons) that if autocrossing were any easier it would be called road racing ...LOL

as a rule of thumb, an autocrosser can more easily learn to slow their hands down, than a road racer can learn to speed their hands up …

plus it's usually easier for an autocroser to learn a new track than it is for a road racer … mainly because every event we attend is a new track and we only get a few runs to learn/master it … not a couple of 20 min practice sessions, a 20 min. qualifying session, and then the race

and the comments above are in no way meant to denigrate road racing ….it's an entirely different skill set