Jerry wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
In reply to Giant Purple Snorklewacker:
So we do the next best thing that we can, we auto-x. It sure beats sitting on the couch watching reruns and making fun of someone for doing what they enjoy and spending time with friends.
Yup. Hell, 85% of the reason I went to the Nationals last weekend was to hang out with all my Ohio friends that were going, meet new friends (I did, in droves), and watch some good RACING. There, yes I said it!
Which reminds me, did I meet you Jerry? I talked to Evan and Pete and Will and about 50 other people. I'm trying to put a face with a car here.
wbjones
UltimaDork
10/10/14 3:40 p.m.
Lof8 wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
D_Eclipse9916 wrote:
Just to throw in a mix as someone else did. A Race car's definition. In my opinion, it is something caged, and built to a specific rule set, but I see HPDE/TT/Autox cars marked as "race cars" all the time. This bothers the E36 M3 outta me for NO reason.
My auto-x car is built to a specific rule set. Wouldn't that make it a racecar by your standards?
you missed "caged". Unless your autox car is caged - unnecessarily?
as pointed out earlier … F1, Indy Car ..etc.. no cage
roll bar, yes … but so does my a-x/ car
Everyone hacking on other forms of motorsports needs to cut that E36 M3 out. You enjoy whatever form of racing you do, so how dare you give someone else grief over the racing they love to do?
I had a few good friends that I don't hang out with anymore over this very reason. It's childish.
oldsaw
UltimaDork
10/10/14 4:45 p.m.
In reply to Spoolpigeon:
Some of these guys could be standing on the gallows for a mass hanging and they would still brag about who has the better rope around their neck.
Here's another one:
Euro Rally Cross is racing. US Rally Cross is not.
It's racing the clock.....
I road race and rallycross (and used to autocross). I refer to all of them as racing in general discussion. Admittedly, when talking with "motorsports friends" I don't generally refer to autocross or rallycross as racing, but that's only because I know there will be one of them who says 'well its not wheel to wheel' and I don't generally feel like arguing about it.
For non-motorsports people, most of them have no idea what autocross or rallycross is anyhow, so it's just easier to say "racing" unless I'm in the mood to explain what it is. Telling non-motorsports people "I drive around cones in a parking lot (or field)" doesn't sound nearly as cool as "I go racing" lol.
And why are old guys at rallycrosses (and autocrosses) always grumpy? I've worked corners with more than one grumpy old guy. I think they're grumpy because usually these same guys are not very fast on course....
motomoron wrote:
But seeing who's willing to go 20' deeper when you're side by side, 2' apart at 140 mph? That's really racing.
I'd argue that stage rally guys going 140mph down a gravel road through some woods with a hairpin turn and giant trees at the end have bigger brass balls than any road racer, sorry. If you go off the a road course track, you're gonna hit a SAFER barrier or another car. They give a little. If you go off the course on stage rally and hit that tree, it doesn't give an inch. Also the fact that stage cars always seem to end up on their roofs, which is not terribly common in track wrecks...
I road race and have never been scared, even when going into a fast corner 3-wide. Some of the stage courses I've seen scare the crap out of me, though.
oldsaw wrote:
In reply to Spoolpigeon:
Some of these guys could be standing on the gallows for a mass hanging and they would still brag about who has the better rope around their neck.
I feel quite confident they would make sure GPS had the highest quality rope.
Also, this is much like the common sports-bar argument about whether Golf is a "sport" compared to, say football or basketball. It's an argument that can never be won.
Nope ! Auto-X is NOT racing, it's rather just an excuse to wear a helmet.
If you're ever taken part in a real race, track, road course, drag, you'd know the difference without having to ask.
Fun-sometimes. Exciting-can be. Racing-not at all.
Tyler H wrote:
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
This is how lemons and chump got born... guys couldn't reach the next rung and so they invented one.
That....that's pretty elitist right there. I think this attitude is common in club racing and that's a bigger part of why LeMons and Chump got born. There are a lot of people out there mixing it up in crapcans that could be club racing. It costs just as much or more than campaigning an IT car.
The last Chump race I ran in (VIR, earlier this year), there were these four guys on track at the same time as me. Like me, they were probably just losers who couldn't take it to the next level of hardcore racing. They just couldn't climb that elite rung....
Their names were Randy Pobst, Ken Schrader, and two brothers named Labonte.....
TeamEvil wrote:
Nope ! Auto-X is NOT racing, it's rather just an excuse to wear a helmet.
If you're ever taken part in a real race, track, road course, drag, you'd know the difference without having to ask.
how is drag any more racing than autocross? sometimes you're just driving in a straight line entirely by yourself? There's not always another car in the other lane, and even if there is, that car isn't necessarily racing against the other car depending on classes or brackets. Nor can cars in drag directly affect how fast the car in the other lane is going (like you can on a road course).
drag is just as much of "time trial" style of racing as autocross is.
So if you don't think autocross is racing, you can't possibly think that drag is racing.
wbjones wrote:
Tyler H wrote:
Autox is maddening to do well, with a steep learning curve. I respect the enthusiasts and their skills. A good autox-er generally has the car control skills to go up the motorsport ladder where the stakes are higher. A talented "race car driver" may not have the skills and patience to excel at autox, going the other way.
I'll just call it all "Motorsport" and be done with it. Beats spectating, which is why even Mr. Grumpy is hoofing cones and not mowing his lawn, no matter what he says.
LOL … we auto crossers have a saying (and I also "race" LeMons) that if autocrossing were any easier it would be called road racing ...LOL
as a rule of thumb, an autocrosser can more easily learn to slow their hands down, than a road racer can learn to speed their hands up …
plus it's usually easier for an autocroser to learn a new track than it is for a road racer … mainly because every event we attend is a new track and we only get a few runs to learn/master it … not a couple of 20 min practice sessions, a 20 min. qualifying session, and then the race
and the comments above are in no way meant to denigrate road racing ….it's an entirely different skill set
it's all good, we can say stuff like this all day. we rallycrossers say that if we could just slow down our hands by about 50%, we'd be good autocrossers 
"So if you don't think autocross is racing, you can't possibly think that drag is racing."
Come on, don't be foolish now.
In reply to TeamEvil:
Not sure if serious or just being extremely dense.
Racing: A motorsport that is conducted exclusively on a paved track with other cars and other men. It requires lots of ego, disposable income and is very, very dangerous. Anything else is simply adorable and shouldn't be very difficult for a man old enough to shave.
Pretty sure he's just trying to get a reaction. Sort of like when I tell my co-worker, who believes hockey was created on the 8th day, that it is "basically soccer on ice."
From my conversations, most "non car people" would considering it racing any time you are trying to drive a car, on a course, for time. As you see here, "car people" are split pretty evenly. I solve the whole problem by not giving a crap what anyone else thinks.
In reply to freestyle:
That is the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum. And sexist. And idiotic.
TeamEvil wrote:
"So if you don't think autocross is racing, you can't possibly think that drag is racing."
Come on, don't be foolish now.
for the record, I think both drag and autocross are fairly boring in comparison to other types of racing (and I've done both many times in several cars). I'm just presenting a logical comparison, since both are time trials, not "wheel to wheel" racing (unless we're talking about street racing). Autocross, drag, and rallycross are the golf of racing, as you are not occupying the same track space as your competitor at the same time.
You can call either of them whatever you want for all I care. I just like to argue
Nick_Comstock wrote:
In reply to freestyle:
That is the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum. And sexist. And idiotic.
plus, it ignores the fact that all manners of modern racing started on dirt oval tracks, dirt roads, or other non-paved surfaces....
Tyler H wrote:
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
This is how lemons and chump got born... guys couldn't reach the next rung and so they invented one.
That....that's pretty elitist right there. I think this attitude is common in club racing and that's a bigger part of why LeMons and Chump got born. There are a lot of people out there mixing it up in crapcans that could be club racing. It costs just as much or more than campaigning an IT car.
Oh please. It is 100% true. Racing was too expensive for 95% of the guys who would love to be doing it or... they would be doing it. I had to build my own damn car from scratch with a freakin' challenge budget to compete with guys who have double stacker race car trailers and some form of income that allows for spare 60k engines so if anything I'd be the case for the opposite of elitist. I was the shiny happy person in CM with a sub-$10k car.
When Jay created lemons he made a place for all the misfit toys who couldn't afford to buy a fully prepped race car or didn't/couldn't/wouldn't pony up for an SCCA license. It was a stroke of genius that spawned more serious but still accessible things like Chump and AER.
As far as costing "as much" - a weekend or two does certainly. It does not come close to what it costs to own, maintain and transport your own car for a full season of club racing at a competitive level. That, being the whole point. People who couldn't otherwise, get a taste without mortgaging the house.
wbjones
UltimaDork
10/10/14 6:52 p.m.
TeamEvil wrote:
Nope ! Auto-X is NOT racing, it's rather just an excuse to wear a helmet.
If you're ever taken part in a real race, track, road course, drag, you'd know the difference without having to ask.
Fun-sometimes. Exciting-can be. Racing-not at all.
so you're saying that drag is racing but autocross isn't ?
they both race against the clock … the only difference is autocross has turns to negotiate …. not just straight line …regardless of speed
a-x is racing … just different from other forms … as other forms are different from each other
wbjones
UltimaDork
10/10/14 6:53 p.m.
irish44j wrote:
wbjones wrote:
Tyler H wrote:
Autox is maddening to do well, with a steep learning curve. I respect the enthusiasts and their skills. A good autox-er generally has the car control skills to go up the motorsport ladder where the stakes are higher. A talented "race car driver" may not have the skills and patience to excel at autox, going the other way.
I'll just call it all "Motorsport" and be done with it. Beats spectating, which is why even Mr. Grumpy is hoofing cones and not mowing his lawn, no matter what he says.
LOL … we auto crossers have a saying (and I also "race" LeMons) that if autocrossing were any easier it would be called road racing ...LOL
as a rule of thumb, an autocrosser can more easily learn to slow their hands down, than a road racer can learn to speed their hands up …
plus it's usually easier for an autocroser to learn a new track than it is for a road racer … mainly because every event we attend is a new track and we only get a few runs to learn/master it … not a couple of 20 min practice sessions, a 20 min. qualifying session, and then the race
and the comments above are in no way meant to denigrate road racing ….it's an entirely different skill set
it's all good, we can say stuff like this all day. we rallycrossers say that if we could just slow down our hands by about 50%, we'd be good autocrossers
you don't have to convince me … I don't carry mine around in a wheelbarrow 
shoot, I don't even hill climb
wbjones
UltimaDork
10/10/14 6:54 p.m.
irish44j wrote:
wbjones wrote:
Lof8 wrote:
Bobzilla wrote:
D_Eclipse9916 wrote:
Just to throw in a mix as someone else did. A Race car's definition. In my opinion, it is something caged, and built to a specific rule set, but I see HPDE/TT/Autox cars marked as "race cars" all the time. This bothers the E36 M3 outta me for NO reason.
My auto-x car is built to a specific rule set. Wouldn't that make it a racecar by your standards?
you missed "caged". Unless your autox car is caged - unnecessarily?
as pointed out earlier … F1, Indy Car ..etc.. no cage
roll bar, yes … but so does my a-x/TT car
no cage:
yep … hadn't even thought about them ...
