drove a Cruz tonight...

poopshovel wrote: I can't remember a Chevy made in the last 30+ years that I thought was particularly good looking. Sure as E36 M3 not the "Cruze."

So this is not "particularly good looking"? ...but this is

?

In reply to 4cylndrfury:

My only problem with the Cruz's looks, and Chevy's in general, is that stupid, stupid, and huge gold bow tie they insist on putting on everything. It's actually stopped me from buying one of their cars more than once. If you bought a dark colored Chevy, then you might be able to pull off painting the emblem black of the color of the car, but sheez that thing is ugly. I even bought a GMC Sierra instead of a Silverado for that one reason.
But anyway, I think the Cruz is a pretty good looking car overall, for a small sedan. My bosses wife has one, and she told me that at least a half dozen people have asked her if it's a BMW. Yeah, I know, those people aren't likely a sampling of the brightest people out there, but nevertheless, not a bad looking car. I just wish they'd make a 2 door SS version.

In reply to bravenrace:

maybe there's an emblem delete option, or a aftermarket grill... or GRM solution

fasted58 wrote: In reply to bravenrace: maybe there's an emblem delete option, or a aftermarket grill... or GRM solution

Sawzall.

It's popular to black them out.

Klayfish wrote:

When shopping for a small DD, we checked out the Fit and found it to be a noisy, plasticky rattle box. Hard to believe it was a Honda. Driving dynamics are nothing to write home about either and are easlily surpassed by the Focus, the Mazda and even the Koreans. Its slow and with Honda's recent slide into mediocrity, doubtfull its any more reliable than its competition. The cheesy hubcaps over steel wheels? no thanks. The one area that the fit excells is its ability to carry a lot of stuff.

It really is interesting how different people interpret the same vehicle dynamics differently. That's why I love reading the boards and even all the different car magazines. We actually felt the opposite. We felt the Fit was quiet (that's all relative...we're comparing it to other econoboxes), tight and drove like a tall go cart. Agree the interior was plastic fantastic in spots, most notably the HVAC controls. Also agree the hubcaps are pathetic. Other cars use hubcaps (see the base Mazda 2, etc...), but the ones on the Fit are horrid. However, that's easily remedied. Beyond that, I think it's the best B segment car out there. I don't agree they've slid to mediocrity. They're still dead nuts reliable. Haven't driven the Focus, so don't know much about it. The first car we test drove was the Kia Rio (sister to the Accent), and we found it to be a decent car, but nothing close to the Fit. By the way OP, do yourself a favor and shop the Mini. It's not a true apples to apples comparison to B segment cars, but damn they're fun to drive. That's the discussion my wife and I are having now. Take the smart, practical, reliable safe bet Fit/Mazda2 or go for something with more "personality" like the Mini.

I find the fit tedious. Cruising at highway speeds at 3500rpms+ is just not fun. Rear drum brakes, weird dash layout and really loud interior just makes it a no-go for us. The Accent SE was a much quieter, comfortable and fun dto drive car that isn't screaming on the highway. Considering that 90% of our drive is 70mph highway speeds and above, the Fit is just not acceptable.

And yes... Honda's quality has nose-dived over the last 10 years.

My FIL has a fit with 60k miles on it. I love its ability to swallow stuff and it is somewhat peppy and reasonably fun to drive. That said it isn't without its issues. Looks I will leave alone as that's so subjective. The interior is very low cost feeling, controls feel just cheap.the carpet is wearing very poorly, as are the seat fabric. The OEM tires lasted 20k miles and the clutch has started to shudder and will probably need replaced in the next 5k miles. It's been reliable for him overall and he gets 36 mpg average. Overall I guess I would say its an ok car but I would drive all of the b segment cars before just buying on Honda reputation.

Like I said, it's all in the eye of the beholder, and what your intended use is. The Fit isn't perfect, but for $15k, no new car is. For that kind of money, every car maker has to cut corners, use cheap plastic in spots, etc... We find it to be a much better all around car than any of its' competition. And call me crazy, but I don't find it dorky or ugly. It's not great looking, but it's OK, and in Sport trim, it's actually decent.

I don't see Honda's quality having gone down recently. Everything I see still shows them at the top for long term reliability.

Klayfish wrote: I don't see Honda's quality having gone down recently. Everything I see still shows them at the top for long term reliability.

Yeah, I would like to see some empirical data to support that assertion as well.

I would say that Honda's are no longer WAY more reliable than other makes, but that is because other makes are improving.

Example: Drive a 2012 Hyundai Sonata and a 2012 Honda Accord and they are pretty comparable. Then go back in time to '94 and drive a new Sonata and a new Accord, not comparable.

In reply to ShadowSix:

Both of you guys must not read Consumer Reports (who pulled a lot of Honda models of of their Recommended selections), Car & Driver (who dropped the Accord 10Best to just one very specific model/trim and with the caveat that it wasn't going to last as it came in last in all of the comparison tests), Autoblog (who's been reporting on Honda recalls, lawsuits the Honda is losing by the bucketload, and sliding JD Powers and other quality data), or Edmunds (who's been reporting a steep sales decline over the last 2+ years, especially with the Civic and has pointed to recent quality issues as the partial causes).

Javelin wrote: In reply to ShadowSix: Both of you guys must not read Consumer Reports (who pulled a lot of Honda models of of their Recommended selections), Car & Driver (who dropped the Accord 10Best to just one very specific model/trim and with the caveat that it wasn't going to last as it came in last in all of the comparison tests), Autoblog (who's been reporting on Honda recalls, lawsuits the Honda is losing by the bucketload, and sliding JD Powers and other quality data), or Edmunds (who's been reporting a steep sales decline over the last 2+ years, especially with the Civic and has pointed to recent quality issues as the partial causes).

We don't often agree, but on this we do. I just watched the first 3 RDX's have to have the ECU's reflashed to fix yet another transmission issue..... straight off the truck. Not to mention the plethora of recalls, the constant transmission issues, the electrical nightmares of their top tier stuff....

Honda is still a good brand. I won't say it's not. But the days of buying a Honda because you know it will be great are long gone.

Klayfish wrote: Like I said, it's all in the eye of the beholder, and what your intended use is. The Fit isn't perfect, but for $15k, no new car is. For that kind of money, every car maker has to cut corners, use cheap plastic in spots, etc... We find it to be a much better all around car than any of its' competition.

But 500.

ShadowSix wrote:

Klayfish wrote: I don't see Honda's quality having gone down recently. Everything I see still shows them at the top for long term reliability.

Yeah, I would like to see some empirical data to support that assertion as well. I would say that Honda's are no longer WAY more reliable than other makes, but that is because other makes are improving. Example: Drive a 2012 Hyundai Sonata and a 2012 Honda Accord and they are pretty comparable. Then go back in time to '94 and drive a new Sonata and a new Accord, not comparable.

Exactly. Everything I've seen and read (which is a lot, including industry publications that aren't sold to the public in general) indicates that It's not so much that Honda has gotten worse (although their interiors aren't what they used to be), but that others have gotten much better.

4cylndrfury wrote:

poopshovel wrote: I can't remember a Chevy made in the last 30+ years that I thought was particularly good looking. Sure as E36 M3 not the "Cruze."

So this is not "particularly good looking"? ...but this is ?

Yes, the Fit looks better than the newest Chevy "Car that doesn't look like a bad appliance until we decide to cover it in berkeleying hideous fake chrome bull E36 M3 and dump a huge, retarded gold bowtie on the hood."

And let's at least go apples to apples.

One reporter's opinion. I'm not trying to make you agree with me. I'm sure the Chevy's interior is nicer...at least until all the knobs on the dash fall apart. I joke.

poopster, to be fair, the chrome is cheesy, but in general, the cruze is a pretty good looking car. I wasnt saying the cruze was "better looking" than the fit, I was just using that, using the fit as a benchmark for your taste, Im not sure that your argument that Chevy hasnt made a particularly good looking car in 30 years holds water. In person, the RS Cruze looks even better than the pic above. Every time I see a cruze in the wild, I like it a little bit more.

..add a zomfgturbo-booster, and now Im even more inclined to get in line for a cruze eco. A fit is a good B segment car. I actually kinda like the looks of em (Trueno fanboi over here...I dig quirky). The fuel economy of the fit is a good selling point too. But I need some room. Im over 6 foot tall, and closing in on 275 lbs...Im not a small guy. B cars are really not on my radar for daily duty.

The OEM tires lasted 20k miles

I'm not trying to be all "SHUDDUP GUYS, MY CAR IS AWESOME 'CUZ IT'S MINE," because I'm not, but I'm calling horse-E36 M3 on this one. If I'm not on the highway, I'm driving the car like I'm autocrossing. It's got 22,000 miles and is barely showing any wear on the tires. Yes, I'm sure the cheap-ass carpet will wear out. Yes, they made a HORRIBLE call using the weird GM style knobs for A/C controls. This is not something I'm overly concerned about. I've not heard of anyone else having clutch issues. I've heard of clutch "shudder" issues on the Fit boards. 10 times out of 9, it's some knob that wants to slowly release the pedal in 1st at 1,500 RPM.

bravenrace wrote:

ShadowSix wrote:

Klayfish wrote: I don't see Honda's quality having gone down recently. Everything I see still shows them at the top for long term reliability.

Yeah, I would like to see some empirical data to support that assertion as well. I would say that Honda's are no longer WAY more reliable than other makes, but that is because other makes are improving. Example: Drive a 2012 Hyundai Sonata and a 2012 Honda Accord and they are pretty comparable. Then go back in time to '94 and drive a new Sonata and a new Accord, not comparable.

Exactly. Everything I've seen and read (which is a lot, including industry publications that aren't sold to the public in general) indicates that It's not so much that Honda has gotten worse (although their interiors aren't what they used to be), but that others have gotten much better.

And I have to disagree... after dealing with the brand 5-6 days a week for hte last 8 years. I would take a mid-late 90's honda/acura any day of the week before I'd take anything made in the last 10.

4cylndrfury wrote: poopster, to be fair, the chrome is cheesy, but in general, the cruze is a pretty good looking car. I wasnt saying the cruze was "better looking" than the fit, I was just using that, using the fit as a benchmark for your taste, Im not sure that your argument that Chevy hasnt made a particularly good looking car in 30 years holds water. In person, the RS Cruze looks even better than the pic above. Every time I see a cruze in the wild, I like it a little bit more. ..add a zomfgturbo-booster, and now Im even more inclined to get in line for a cruze eco. A fit is a good B segment car. I actually kinda like the looks of em (Trueno fanboi over here...I dig quirky). The fuel economy of the fit is a good selling point too. But I need some room. Im over 6 foot tall, and closing in on 275 lbs...Im not a small guy. B cars are really not on my radar for daily duty.

Had I said "The Fit is the ultimate benchmark for great car design," I'd expect you to nut-punch me. That said, I think it's a good looking car, and yes, in a "quirky" way. I am a big fan of the 1G xB too. So there ya go. At least it doesn't look like every other "put a gun in my mouth bubble on wheels" appliance out there.

6', 220lbs. No problems. But I hate big cars, and I hug the wheel.

Javelin wrote: In reply to ShadowSix: Both of you guys must not read Consumer Reports (who pulled a lot of Honda models of of their Recommended selections), Car & Driver (who dropped the Accord 10Best to just one very specific model/trim and with the caveat that it wasn't going to last as it came in last in all of the comparison tests), Autoblog (who's been reporting on Honda recalls, lawsuits the Honda is losing by the bucketload, and sliding JD Powers and other quality data), or Edmunds (who's been reporting a steep sales decline over the last 2+ years, especially with the Civic and has pointed to recent quality issues as the partial causes).

Car and Driver dropped the full Accord range mostly because the current model is aging. So compared to the competition, it feels outdated. They just did a comparo with it this past issue and made those comments. Has nothing to do with their build quality.

Honda has done some recalls, pretty much all companies do at some point. I don't know that they're any higher than any other company. A lot of the JD Power surveys and other quality metrics come from surveys done very shortly after initial ownership. And...the survey counts a customer complaint as a reported "issue". So if the customer complains they don't like the radio layout, that's reported as an issue. Honda has been criticized recently for interior materials and layout, and rightfully so. That contributes to dropping them in those survey results. But it doesn't change how well the car will hold up after 5 years and 100k miles vs how well a Chevy will hold up over the same time.

poopshovel wrote:

The OEM tires lasted 20k miles

I'm not trying to be all "SHUDDUP GUYS, MY CAR IS AWESOME 'CUZ IT'S MINE," because I'm not, but I'm calling horse-E36 M3 on this one. If I'm not on the highway, I'm driving the car like I'm autocrossing. It's got 22,000 miles and is barely showing any wear on the tires. Yes, I'm sure the cheap-ass carpet will wear out. Yes, they made a HORRIBLE call using the weird GM style knobs for A/C controls. This is not something I'm overly concerned about. I've not heard of anyone else having clutch issues. I've heard of clutch "shudder" issues on the Fit boards. 10 times out of 9, it's some knob that wants to slowly release the pedal in 1st at 1,500 RPM.

Would you like me to provide reciepts for the new tires? Honda puts CRAP tires on their new cars. I'm glad your getting all sorts of miles out of yours but our experiences on 4 different new Honda's have been they have poor OEM tire life (Our 2008 Civic 24K miles, Our 2008 (used) Odyssey purchased with used up OEM tires @ 28K, My FIL's 2007 Civic 28K miles, and His Fit ~20K miles) We are either very very hard on tires (My GTI's tires lasted 40K miles on the summer only Contiprocontacts that it came with) or Honda puts crappy tires on their cars.

I'll let him know that he's a Knob. I'm sure that will be news to him as he's put over 140k miles on a TDI Jetta clutch and more than that on other manual trans OEM clutches in the past. I'm not saying it's pervasive or some big "Issue" with your precious Fit but his experience is that the Clutch is not necessarily up to task the way other vehicle clutches that he has owned have been.

I'm glad your ownership experience has been wonderful. His overall has been. He is completely happy with his Fit and intends to own it for a long time. I was merely trying to point out my experiences with it. I appoligize that I was apparently wrong. New carpet is expected to wear out, why not it's easy to replace. Cheezy interior parts on Honda's are fine I mean they are just mimicking GM so it's cool.

nocones wrote:

poopshovel wrote:

The OEM tires lasted 20k miles

I'm not trying to be all "SHUDDUP GUYS, MY CAR IS AWESOME 'CUZ IT'S MINE," because I'm not, but I'm calling horse-E36 M3 on this one. If I'm not on the highway, I'm driving the car like I'm autocrossing. It's got 22,000 miles and is barely showing any wear on the tires. Yes, I'm sure the cheap-ass carpet will wear out. Yes, they made a HORRIBLE call using the weird GM style knobs for A/C controls. This is not something I'm overly concerned about. I've not heard of anyone else having clutch issues. I've heard of clutch "shudder" issues on the Fit boards. 10 times out of 9, it's some knob that wants to slowly release the pedal in 1st at 1,500 RPM.

Would you like me to provide reciepts for the new tires? Honda puts CRAP tires on their new cars. I'm glad your getting all sorts of miles out of yours but our experiences on 4 different new Honda's have been they have poor OEM tire life (Our 2008 Civic 24K miles, Our 2008 (used) Odyssey purchased with used up OEM tires @ 28K, My FIL's 2007 Civic 28K miles, and His Fit ~20K miles) We are either very very hard on tires (My GTI's tires lasted 40K miles on the summer only Contiprocontacts that it came with) or Honda puts crappy tires on their cars. I'll let him know that he's a Knob. I'm sure that will be news to him as he's put over 140k miles on a TDI Jetta clutch and more than that on other manual trans OEM clutches in the past. I'm not saying it's pervasive or some big "Issue" with your precious Fit but his experience is that the Clutch is not necessarily up to task the way other vehicle clutches that he has owned have been. I'm glad your ownership experience has been wonderful. His overall has been. He is completely happy with his Fit and intends to own it for a long time. I was merely trying to point out my experiences with it. I appoligize that I was apparently wrong. New carpet is expected to wear out, why not it's easy to replace. Cheezy interior parts on Honda's are fine I mean they are just mimicking GM so it's cool.

Don't worry, you're not the only one thats wrong. If you don't dry hump every honda made and exclaim loyalty to them you are wrong. I've been through it before.... I'll go through it again. NEVER doubt the almighty HONDA. Even if they can't build an automatic transmission to save their ass.

So this is not "particularly good looking"?

Sat in one yesterday! So damn nice for a compact car!

Does anybody know which trim level gets those wheels?

Most cars come from the factory with short life span tires, not just Honda. The ones on our Fit lasted about 40k, maybe a bit less. That's the same experience we had with our Kia Sedona. The factory tires didn't last long.

For me, it's not about worshiping Honda. My garage consists of one Honda, one Volvo, one Kia, one Mazda, one Suzuki/Geo. So I'm spreading the love around. Actually shopping for a Mini now to replace the Volvo...and yes, I think I'm chosing it over another new Fit. I just think that if you're looking for a safe, reliable, economical sure bet car, Honda is at the top of the list. And Bobzilla...after 5 years of Kia ownership, I'd say that Hyundai/Kia is nipping really hard at Honda's heels. I can't say anything bad about our experience.

Sultan wrote: Sat in one yesterday! So damn nice for a compact car! Does anybody know which trim level gets those wheels?

That is a pic of the RS trim package.

Needs more bowtie

Actually I think it is one of the better looking recent 4 door sedans.