E30 and tie rods

Got a lemons beater, 1986 BMW 325E, saloon, automatic. The tie rod ends were shot. Bought some new Flennor tie rod ends from rockauto. But they do not clear the wheels. My wheels are Fundo BMW32, 6Jx14H2. (There is another set of numbers but I can not make them out.) The new tie rods look a bit larger in diameter at the ball joint where it ties to the wheel than the original tie rod ends. Could I have installed the tie rod ends wrong to cause this interference? Are Flennor parts just too cheap?

Flennor? DO NOT buy Hamburg tecknik, Deutche parts or any other made in China crap that you find on ebay or from shady parts dealers like FCP groton. If you want tie rods get some Moog or Lemforder parts. When you cheap out on parts for your e30 you lose in the long run. Alas I know this from experience

So, the problem is the cheapness of the part? The price of the part is a concern when doing a 24 hours of lemons, it is the goal to be cheap. I agree with ya, but is this truly the issue? I can go to a SPICER/RAYBESTOS which is about $4 more for the pair. I can go to a BECK/ARNLEY which is about $12 more for a pair.

The MOOG part bumps me up to $24 more per pair.

But what is the problem with the Flennors? Anyone use these on an E30?

The problem is they don't fit, I thought you figured that out already?

The cheap stuff is a larger diameter than the Lemforder stuff, like you mentioned.

You need to pony up for the real stuff.

I have used the Ebay stuff on a E30 and a E34 with no issues. Both cars have been Autocrossed and nothing has broken or gone out of alightment.

For the e30s if you have the wrong offset on yor wheels that may be the issue. I have seen cars with the brake calapers ground down to allow the wheels to fit. I bet someone could of trimmed the tie rods for the same reason.

OK, cheap = to big. Got it. The car has BMW wheels - probably original 6Jx14H2. The original tie rods I took off have no visible modifications.

I know nothing of China made or Hamburg tecknik. WiIl either of these manufacturers work?

Spicer/Raybestos Beck/Arnley

If you're on a budget you could just buy the outer and not the entire assembly?

My price differences are for just the outers.

Another question what size are your tires? 195 or 205s?

Having done the Lemons race last year in a e30 at CMP.( and again this year ) . i would say you could consider Tie rods safety.. I dont think the judges will ding you on something that makes the car steer. Its not like you are putting on coil overs..

We bring out a spare set incase some one hits your front tire and bends one.

B

I asked that very question to Jay Lamm, and the answer is NO. Steering is not included in safety.

Can you make a wheel spacer out of some scrap aluminum, maybe?

Take a grinder and skuff them up..

Let them sit in water for a day or 2.. Not the threads. so they look old. You will be fine.

The judges openly take bribes for petes sake, I really dont think they will be looking at tie rods.

Jensenman: I looked into a spacer, however the tie rod end goes 3 inches into the wheel - that would a big spacer.

I bought the Flennor parts from ROCKAUTO. I sent a couple email to them explaining my situation to them. They did some investigation and found the FLennor part should NOT have been listed for the 1986 325e. ROCKAUTO then promptly refunded the $ without asking for the part back!!! They did indicate that the warehouse may ask for the part back but not likely as I have already installed them. This, IMHO, is the way to handle customer service. I then re-order the new tie rods - but I did not get the MOOG parts and I did not get the least expensive SPICER parts. So, I shall see how it goes.

bam2002: Our team is actually attempting to be within budget for the vehicle. (It is a cool challenge to work with.) We currently are only $128 over budget but have the door panels, rear seat, working window motors, and cruise control to sell.

bam2002 wrote: Take a grinder and skuff them up.. Let them sit in water for a day or 2.. Not the threads. so they look old. You will be fine. The judges openly take bribes for petes sake, I really dont think they will be looking at tie rods.

I am gonna look REAL close at your car. The 'bribe jar' was overflowing last year. Good work, if you can get it!

3 inches that is wrong.. you got the wrong parts.

I have photos documents, recipts.. I currently am $4 under the $500 limit.. If your a little over then I agree going with the cheap stuff. I figured you were at the limit and going a little over is pretty standard.

With porsche 944s entered and the Ex Spec cars on the list i think there are a few people doing creative accounting.

My team is very lucky. One of our drivers owns a shop, Has all the equipment to rebuild the car. So its all Labor. that is free. Plus when his customers leave old or worn parts its nice to have backups. In case the part on the car fails.

I once skimped on tie rods (Meyle blue box, made in Turkey) and it cost me an E30:

Although technically I guess it was the wall outside the corner that cost me an E30...

I ended up getting the Spicer tie rods. Yep, they cleared the wheel just fine. The Spicer is still cheap. Rockauto removed the Flennor tie rods from their list of 86 E30 compatible tie rods.

We have been pretty impressed with how cheap BMW parts have been so far. For example, the CSB was $13.75 with the upgraded one being $14.50. I know nothing about car part prices, but for the function of the CSB it seemed very inexpensive.

I have a full lift in my garage which has made all the repairs simple for our inexperienced team.

bam2002: We decided to wave the timing belt replacement. It was done around 50K miles ago. Bad idea?

One other question. We tried to get the speedometer working. We replaced the Diff sensor with no success. Any ideas on what else to look at to get the dash board speedometer working again?

Pull the distributor cap then top 2 bolts off the cover and look at the belt .Do a quick visual. I have run them up to 100k with no issues. But a stone or some debris can mess a belt up if it gets under the cover.

Check water pump for play. set up a switch for the electric fan on the radiator so you can manually turn it on.

most of the time no speedo is the diff sensor. ( but you checked it ) Id say its the cluster. Main board.. U pull junkyard. a ETA, IS or 318 car should all work.. Just the tach is different. On the later e30 clusters there is a black pin that goes in the back of the tach., It has a notches in it.. the tach can be adjusted by the notches. IE these pins can be swapped out. Or you can swap out the tach from your car into a 4 cyl cluster if needed.

Thanks for the info on the speedo. I had the dash out recently to remove the cruise control. So I will do it again.

We replaced the CSB, because to old one was completely shot - all the rubber around the bearing was missing. The old CSB caused a thumping noise in the car floor when at low speed acceleration. However.....with the NEW CSB installed, we get the same thumping noise at low acceleration. ????

We did give the new CSB a push toward the engine of about a 1/4 inch from its wanted hanging point.

We did mark the shaft at the diff and the tranny and replaced as marked.

Should you be able to move the drive shaft up and down about 3/4 inch? in doing this we seem to be able to simulate the thumping noise but it is tough to tell.

The tranny mounts seem to be OK. (automatic tranny)

The engine mounts seem to be OK.

The thumping is coming from the CSB spot when sitting in the car.

The collar part of the rear shaft seemed a little odd to us when installing. This collar sits just behind the CSB. It is currently screwed tight to the rear shaft which happens to expose some of the front shaft grooves that slide into the rear shaft.

I would be worried about the auto transmission.

How many miles are on the car? I have seen at least a dozen Auto cars fail between 130 and 170 k miles.

Auto trannys were probably one of the main Lemons failures at the CMP race last summer. We ended up losing 2nd and 3rd and the blew the back two cylinders of the motor. Finished in 1st gear with a V4 instead of a V6. Top speed: 38, but by God we finished. One of the teams ended up using their windshield washer pump to spray water on the trans cooler trying to keep it cool.

The tranny seems to run fine. Shifts as expected. No leaks.

But when removing the drive shaft the instructions indicated a "flex joint" at the tranny. I did NOT have one of these. I did check that a flex joint can be purchased for the automatic trannys of 1986. This may explain the exposed gear groves between the front an rear drive shaft, just behind the CSB.? As I expect a flex joint has about a 1/2 inch of thickness. Is this a typical hack job assembly to not put back the flex joint? The bolts use to hold the drive shaft to the tranny seemed made for the purpose as they were an odd shape. Also, the nuts for the drive shaft bolts were toward the front of the car - which required the removal of the transmission mount to get to. This was also different from the instructions.

Anyway, the car had no flex joint at the tranny. Do 1986 325E automatics have a flex joint? Were some 325e autos made without the flex joint?

Do whatever it takes to keep the tranny cool. See if you can use an old heater core etc as a cooler and rig sprayers like Toyman said.

I am sorry but I have NO info on an Auto trans car. I have never owned a Auto BMW..

I can tell you on the maunuals there is a Guilbo. A rubber donut that has 6 bolts. 3 from the trans yoke and 3 for the driveshaft. So there are 2 flex points on the driveshaft - the center bearing and the guilbo.

The splines in the center of the drivshaft are usually visible. Because you need to loosen that nut and collapse the drive shaft making it shorter to get it out. But when doing this there should be no splines visible.

Yes with a new center bering there still is a little play If you laying under the car and pulling on it IE lifting yourself off the ground I could see it moving a bit. but 3/4 of an inch seems a little excessive.

Since this is a Lemons car cut a hole in the trans tunnel inside the car so you can look down at the driveshaft - center bearing and see if its moving. You can tape over the hole later.

Bam2002: LOL! Cut a hole and look at the shaft! I like that way of thinking.

Thanks for the answers. I seem to have assembled everything as it should be.

So...this car is supposed to have the flex joint between the tranny and the drive shaft. However, my tranny and the drive shaft have 4 bolts/holes!!! Not 3!!!! The flex joint has 6 holes in the pictures at the parts stores. What gives here? If I have the wrong drive shaft I must also have the wrong tranny?