I got a 1986 Ford Crown Victoria P72 Police Model and a 1986 BMW 325 E30 coupe. I want to build the ultimate track BMW by swapping in the 5.0 into the E30 but how much custom work is needed on the wiring harness? Thats what I am more scared of, dealing with electrical wires and sensors. I am crafty with a blow torch and welder but when it comes down to wiring an entire car, I break under pressure. Does anybody have any tips or advice on the swap? Has anybody in the GRM community built a V8 BMW in the past and if so, what are the major obstacles?
wiring is as easy or hard as you make it.
with my astro i've pruned the factory harness down to just the sending unit wires to run the gauges and am using a stand alone harness for the new drivetrain.
does the vic have a carb? if not you could go that route and just use the existing alternator and starter wiring, get one of the new fancy GM HEI distributors that they make for fords now, run a single 10ga ignition wire to it and be running with 3 or 4 wires. a 1 wire alternator would net you one wire there to batt, one ignition wire for the distributor, one wire to the starter solenoid, a couple battery cables, and thats it.
In reply to patgizz:
I was thinking of keeping it efi but a carburetor swap would be cool.
deveous9 wrote:
In reply to patgizz:
I was thinking of keeping it efi but a carburetor swap would be cool.
No it wouldn't. A carb swap would be admitting defeat - the wiring will not be terrifying if you take the time to understand just the basics of what you need to have. There are even kits out there for this swap so if all else fails - you can just buy what you need (shudder).
5.0 Mustang guys got you covered.
http://www.e30v8.com/
might get more info there
Why would you use a Crown Vic motor as the base for this swap?? Nothing on that engine is going to be of use on the track. The heads, cam, intake, pistons, and pulleys are all going to have to be upgraded. That motor in TOP shape puts 160-170hp to the wheels. It is not the same engine as the Mustang 5.0HO, which has a better cam, head, intake, one belt accessory setup. and forged or hyper pistons (unless you use an 86 or older HO which has cast pistons like in the Vic).
In reply to blaze86vic:
Thats what I got to work with so I'll use it. I got the Crown Victoria dirt cheap through a relative but the principal reason why I am using the vic's engine, ecu and harness is because this model vic has no speed governor like the regular crown victoria. The police issue 86 vic will easily go 130mph while the regular production model tops out at about 95mph.
If I were rich I would get a supercharged 4.6 but this is the real world and I have a real world budget. Not everyone can afford a crate engine.
In reply to Apexcarver:
read the swap info page, it only takes 20 wires to splice and that sounds like something I can do.
An M50 is like $200 at the junkyard. why build a hack job you wont be able to see when you dont want it anymore?
http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showthread.php?t=79186
There's another but there's a lot of tomfoolery to wade through.
deveous9 wrote:
In reply to blaze86vic:
Thats what I got to work with so I'll use it. I got the Crown Victoria dirt cheap through a relative but the principal reason why I am using the vic's engine, ecu and harness is because this model vic has no speed governor like the regular crown victoria. The police issue 86 vic will easily go 130mph while the regular production model tops out at about 95mph.
If I were rich I would get a supercharged 4.6 but this is the real world and I have a real world budget. Not everyone can afford a crate engine.
I own an 86 Crown Vic and their is no such thing as a speed limiter on these cars. They weren't limited till the early 90's when they started using the 4.6L. The 5.0L found in ALL Panthers are all the same. There is no such thing as an "interceptor motor" in 79-97 panthers, the police package came with the same exact engine as the civilian ones.
Don't waste your time with that engine or that ECU. The Panther uses what is commonly referred to as a LOPO 5.0L. The LOPO does not have the same firing order as the HO. Almost all of the aftermarket cams use the HO (same as 351) firing order. The LOPO also uses 14lb injectors, which can handle about 200hp tops. There is no decent way to make the LOPO ECU run the HO firing order well. Like I said before, nothing on the engine is of any use on the track. If you got the whole car for $50 then you essentially paid $50 for a 5.0L block, because you will end up replacing everything else, ECU included. I'm not a noob to these cars, I've had mine for over 8 years, and it's been in my family for over 16 years, and I've upgraded everything on this car (check it out, I have it on my readers rides.)
I'd highly recommend you join www.grandmarq.net. It's a great forum that is very much focused on the the box panthers. The tech is awesome there, and we can let you know anything about these cars.
Find an M20B25 and turbo it with MegaSquirt.
I just don't see going through the effort for that V8. If you were going to drop in an LS1 (there is a guy that has) I'd say go for it.
blaze86vic wrote:
deveous9 wrote:
In reply to blaze86vic:
Thats what I got to work with so I'll use it. I got the Crown Victoria dirt cheap through a relative but the principal reason why I am using the vic's engine, ecu and harness is because this model vic has no speed governor like the regular crown victoria. The police issue 86 vic will easily go 130mph while the regular production model tops out at about 95mph.
If I were rich I would get a supercharged 4.6 but this is the real world and I have a real world budget. Not everyone can afford a crate engine.
I own an 86 Crown Vic and their is no such thing as a speed limiter on these cars. They weren't limited till the early 90's when they started using the 4.6L. The 5.0L found in ALL Panthers are all the same. There is no such thing as an "interceptor motor" in 79-97 panthers, the police package came with the same exact engine as the civilian ones.
Don't waste your time with that engine or that ECU. The Panther uses what is commonly referred to as a LOPO 5.0L. The LOPO does not have the same firing order as the HO. Almost all of the aftermarket cams use the HO (same as 351) firing order. The LOPO also uses 14lb injectors, which can handle about 200hp tops. There is no decent way to make the LOPO ECU run the HO firing order well. Like I said before, nothing on the engine is of any use on the track. If you got the whole car for $50 then you essentially paid $50 for a 5.0L block, because you will end up replacing everything else, ECU included. I'm not a noob to these cars, I've had mine for over 8 years, and it's been in my family for over 16 years, and I've upgraded everything on this car (check it out, I have it on my readers rides.)
I'd highly recommend you join www.grandmarq.net. It's a great forum that is very much focused on the the box panthers. The tech is awesome there, and we can let you know anything about these cars.
It's funny that you mention this because it just so happens that I sold my 88 crown vic because it toped out at about 95 mph and that particular model had the 85 mph speedometer. I put the 86 on jack stands and reved it up past 120 mph without a problem and no cut off!
There's no aerodynamic drag on a car on jackstands. Also, please be VERY careful reving a car on jackstands, the last thing we want is for you to get hurt.
Around '88 or so Motor trend did a cop car test. The Crown Vic 302 topped out at 108mph w/ no light bar. Dodge Diplomat 318 was 112 w/bar, Caprice 350 was 117 w/o bar.
deveous9 wrote:
It's funny that you mention this because it just so happens that I sold my 88 crown vic because it toped out at about 95 mph and that particular model had the 85 mph speedometer. I put the 86 on jack stands and reved it up past 120 mph without a problem and no cut off!
Then something was wrong with the car, and/or maybe the rear tires were larger than factory. There is no speed limiter before 92. I've been in the ECU myself. My father is a Ford Senior Master tech and I have access to his personal NGS diagnostics tool. Stock Box Panthers top out at about 110mph because of their lack of power and less than ideal factory gearing.
I'm not trying to hate on your ambitions man, I'm just trying to let you know that although you may be going this route because of up front cost saving, it will either end up costing a lot more or be a lot a slower than you expected. So please do some more research before making this decisions as I can guarantee you will be disappointed with that engines performance, and aggravated when you go to modify it.
I think I will be alright. I just cant stop thinking about how fast a gutted out e30 with a 5.0 under the hood will be. I dont need anyone telling me that my project idea is a mistake.
I never said your idea was a mistake. Ford 5.0's are great engines, that's why I stuck with the 302 in my car. A V8 makes anything cooler. But not all of them are created equal. Good luck with the project either way.
One of the guys from Vorschlag is on corner-carvers and picked up an E30 last week and is getting an Infiniti VH45 today to start a V8 conversion. He's going to be making a dedicated thread for it when he gets started, so that may be a good source of info for you (even though you're using the 5L). Here's his post about getting started (It's at the end of his VH45 into a Datsun thread).
http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38683
Bob
Schmidlap wrote:
One of the guys from Vorschlag is on corner-carvers and picked up an E30 last week and is getting an Infiniti VH45 today to start a V8 conversion. He's going to be making a dedicated thread for it when he gets started, so that may be a good source of info for you (even though you're using the 5L). Here's his post about getting started (It's at the end of his VH45 into a Datsun thread).
http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38683
Bob
The Vorschlag guys are busy! First, one posts here about building a $2010 Challenge car and another one is doing the Infiniti swap. Very cool stuff!
It took me a while but I finally got through reading all the links and I got some good ideas for my E30 V8 project. I think I am going to get a T5 manual transmission and dump the auto one in the vic. I am also going to eliminate as much weight that I possibly can. I checked out a couple of videos and it turns out that some custom fabrication is needed.
here is an example of what I am talking about
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwRqUGjvtZ8
dyintorace wrote:
The Vorschlag guys are busy! First, one posts here about building a $2010 Challenge car and another one is doing the Infiniti swap. Very cool stuff!
Turns out they're the same car! I missed Fair's post in the "Who's prepping for the $2010 Challenge post". I don't know if he's posting a build log here, but he's started it on Corner Carvers.
You can find it here:
http://forums.corner-carvers.com/showthread.php?t=42099
On edit: Looks like the Infiniti engine isn't set in stone, but it will be some kind of V8.
Bob
